Sparkling wine via méthode ancestrale - how to predict pressure build-up?

[Claudio Lucente]

I've been making sparkling chardonnay and pinot noir rosé using the méthode ancestrale since 2015 with varying results on how much pressure developed in the bottles. In 2019, there was so much pressure built up in the bottles that some of them seeped through their plastic closures resulting in a messy but flagrant cold room. In 2020 I tried the méthode champenoise and hit 4 Bar measured using an aphrometer fixed onto on a control bottle. I hit the mark based on the liqueuer de tirage I prepared. I went a bit shy on the dextrose given my PTSD of the 2019 experience. So, MC is definitely more controllable, but the amount of labour in the MC method is too much for the small batches that I produce. Anyone have any suggestions for how to hit a controllable pressure target using the MA?

 

[salcoco]

notes from a friend who has made champagne suggests the following
15.2 grams corn sugar per gallon provides 1 volume of CO2
60 grams per gallon will be 4 atmospheres per gallon this is also 3/4 of sugar for 5 gallons

 

[toadie]

Hey Claudio I haven't made sparkling yet (I have made a bunch of over-carbed sour beers) but have you tried simply capping your bottles. (I use the 29 mm caps on heavy sparkling bottles).

 

[Claudio Lucente]

Hey Claudio I haven't made sparkling yet (I have made a bunch of over-carbed sour beers) but have you tried simply capping your bottles. (I use the 29 mm caps on heavy sparkling bottles).

Hi Toadie. Yep, I started using 29mm caps in 2020. I also use a specialty 29mm cap to which I can screw on an aphrometer to monitor pressure build-up (see photo). This year I decided to lay the bottles down in a sturdy bin rather than open shelving in case one or more of these little guy decides to blow

notes from a friend who has made champagne suggests the following
15.2 grams corn sugar per gallon provides 1 volume of CO2
60 grams per gallon will be 4 atmospheres per gallon this is also 3/4 of sugar for 5 gallons

Hi Salcoco. Thanks for the tip. I am a bit nerdy when it comes to petnat - no sugar, no KMS, no nothin. Only yeast at primary. That's why méthode champenoise goes against the grain - not only because it's so labour intensive. But, you did cause me think about starting sugar level. In reviewing my notes, the 2019 batch, which could double as little explosive devices, I bottled with SG = 1.035. Prior to that, I was bottling between 1.008 and 1.016. For 2020, using MC, I started secondary in the bottle using cuvée at 0.998 and added 318gr dextrose (corn sugar) for 5 ga carboy, plus yeast starter based on EC-1118. This brought the presssure to 4 atm. It seems I validated your friend's formula.

 

[toadie]

Wow Claudio seems like a lot of work! I too put my bottles in a tote with a lid. It's my understanding that bottles shouldn't be stored on their side when capped. I have however, seen a bunch of beers both corked then capped. Second to clarify, are you bottling at a specific gravity rather than letting fermentation finish and then letting the wine age then refermenting? Although your method for 2020 seems about right.

 

[toadie]

I just looked up méthode ancestrale. I don't think I could handle the stress.

 

[dmw_chef]

It’s playing with fire, for sure. If you’re off on you’re FG estimate by 0.002 it’s enough to make a bomb.

 

[Claudio Lucente]

Wow Claudio seems like a lot of work! I too put my bottles in a tote with a lid. It's my understanding that bottles shouldn't be stored on their side when capped. I have however, seen a bunch of beers both corked then capped. Second to clarify, are you bottling at a specific gravity rather than letting fermentation finish and then letting the wine age then refermenting? Although your method for 2020 seems about right.

My preference is to let the primary fermentation complete in the bottle. But, since I had a not-so-good experience in 2019 with over-pressure in the bottles, I opted to use the méthode champenoise in 2020. Pressure development has stopped around 4 Bar, as expected. So, that's what brought me to the orginal question...Is there a way to predict the end-state in-bottle pressure using the méthode ancestrale?
Btw, the bottles that are laying on their sides have bidules inserted under the crown caps because I will riddle and disgorge in about a year. Here is a photo of my riddling rack with 3 adjustable angles.