Structural integrity of carboys

[crushday]

I'm wondering if anyone out there knows the math behind the structural integrity of a carboy. As you can tell from the pics, I have placed a piece of 3/4" plywood between sets of four carboys and stacked them.

Given that each filled 6gal carboy weights approximately 50#, I'm putting 200# on top of four other carboys evenly distributed because of the plywood.

Anyone see this as a terrible and expensive idea?

 

[G259]

Whew yeah, and potentially messy too. I don't think I would do that, but I hope someone else chimes in.

 

[sour_grapes]

What is the plywood resting on? The bungs?

 

[crushday]

What is the plywood resting on? The bungs?

The plywood is resting on handles positioned like the top layer.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yeah, in any event, I don't like the looks of that. Glass is indeed strong in compression, and carboys are strong (can withstand 1 atmosphere pressure), but I don't like putting that weight bearing on a concave surface. That is, the neck is not dome-shaped, but rather, well, neck-shaped (cervical?). Therefore, the glass in the neck area won't be in compression, but will have a large shear component.

 

[sour_grapes]

PS How did you manage to lift that onto there!?!?

 

[crushday]

PS How did you manage to lift that onto there!?!?

Lifting them one at a time and moving into position. My hope is to leave like this for several months (November at earliest) when I’ll bottle the whites and move the reds into the barrels.

 

[crushday]

Therefore, the glass in the neck area won't be in compression, but will have a large shear component.

More info please, specifically “shear component”...

 

[dmguptill]

More info please, specifically “shear component”...

Meaning the angle of force in the neck region of the glass goes in a direction that the glass is less strong.

 

[sour_grapes]

That having been said -- if it didn't break yet, it is unlikely to in the future!

 

[stickman]

Yea, I it appears to be able to hold, but it makes me nervous, one clumsy move while in the area........

 

[Scooter68]

Is it really worth the risk? If one lower carboy breaks you are probably going to lose all 8 of those. Not to mention that even without an outright break, you could have a cracked or weakened carboy neck that breaks when lifted. That could lead to more than just a spill - a shard or broken carboy hitting your leg could easily slice you open.

Make a basic 2x4 support frame bottom open and top covered with 1/2 or thicker plywood.

Take note of how much money, time and effort is represented in those 8 carboys - Willing to risk that???

Sorry if this sounds overly negative but wow, beyond the potential mess...

Four 2x4 s at $ 2.50 each plus your existing plywood and you have a very sturdy support stand for about $10.00

(Correction - that appears to be 1/4" plywood - double that at least if you use those plastic crates OR go to 5/8" ply and skip the plastic crates.)

 

[dmguptill]

Is it really worth the risk? If one lower carboy breaks you are probably going to lose all 8 of those. Not to mention that even without an outright break, you could have a cracked or weakened carboy neck that breaks when lifted. That could lead to more than just a spill - a shard or broken carboy hitting your leg could easily slice you open.

Make a basic 2x4 support frame bottom open and top covered with 1/2 or thicker plywood.

Take note of how much money, time and effort is represented in those 8 carboys - Willing to risk that???

Sorry if this sounds overly negative but wow, beyond the potential mess...

Four 2x4 s at $ 2.50 each plus your existing plywood and you have a very sturdy support stand for about $10.00

(Correction - that appears to be 1/4" plywood - double that at least if you use those plastic crates OR go to 5/8" ply and skip the plastic crates.)

This is exactly what I was going to recommend. I certainly wouldn't want to risk all that wine...

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I agree with building a dedicated shelving unit - It really is not worth taking the chance.

Go with your GUT feeling -

 

[crushday]

Ok, much thanks to #G259, #sour_grapes, #dmguptill, #stickman, #scooter68 and Steve the #vacuumpumpman - I concede. Too much wisdom to ignore.

I’m on a business trip for the week and I’ll build some shelves this next weekend and post a few pics.

Again, thanks for weighing in!

 

[monty]

Again, thanks for weighing in!

I see what you did there!

 

[crushday]

Well, it happened. I just got home from a two week vacation that included a wedding in Montana and found that I lost 6 gallons of wine, the LE17 Hawke's Bay Merlot. This was one of those that was stacked. It was on the bottom. I don't think it was because of weight, however. Since I bottled a few weeks ago, there was only one carboy on top of four carboys below it, separated by a 3/4" piece of plywood. So, not much weight considering how it (the weight) was displaced.

Here's my hypothesis: It's been hot, hot, hot during the couple of weeks I was gone. The previous full weight of the four carboys (that I just bottled) had driven the stopper all the way into the neck of the carboy. As it warmed up and expanded, I think it simply explosively cracked. That's my hunch and an educated guess, only.

Super bummed I lost that wine. This hobby has been success by trial, error and this forum. Although I was warned by many fine vintners here, I convinced myself I was too busy to change the storage configuration. Another hard lesson learned.

On another front, deer have decimated my newly planted vineyard. Many of the plants had grown over 4 feet tall and were doing great. Gone. Bright side is strong roots for next season.

 

[dmguptill]

Here's my hypothesis: It's been hot, hot, hot during the couple of weeks I was gone. The previous full weight of the four carboys (that I just bottled) had driven the stopper all the way into the neck of the carboy. As it warmed up and expanded, I think it simply explosively cracked. That's my hunch and an educated guess, only.

This may be right. I've seen expansion of my wine in carboys as it has warmed here too (midwest). A couple of the wines, which were an inch or more below the bung, expanded up into the airlock! A big change in volume for liquid. If a solid stopper got wedged in there, it's certainly possible that the pressure built up and cracked the carboy.

Sorry about the lost wine. Sad to lose a batch, especially a LE!

 

[G259]

I think that it's a combination of the factors that you describe, mostly the stacking. I would never do that, but it's not my wine! I hope you have better luck in the future.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Thankfully no one got hurt. I always bulk age my wines with air locks - because of temperature and barometric pressure changes. I also live in the Midwest.