Stuck in Secondary?

[jgmann67]

I'm a little concerned with my Cab in the secondary. It clearing very well, but the SG has only dropped .002 in the last 4 days. SG is 0.998. I know, it's good enough... But, I am going to keep it in the secondary another week to give it a little more time to clear.

I would like to get the SG down around 0.992 if possible. Do I just be patient and see what happens in the next week? Or, is there something I should be doing to help it along? I worry that the yeast is just out of steam at this point.

 

[salcoco]

you are doing fine.if sg is temp correct probably at .992. can't tell the difference in taste anyway.
I would let it sit in secondary for about three months before bottling. not only will it clear it will self degass, just keep up on kemta numbers.

 

[jgmann67]

That's what I was hoping to hear. I'm not getting any of the usual signs of fermentation. I have a couple inches between bung and wine. No bubbles. I didn't expect much at this point, but nothing??

 

[sour_grapes]

I always leave mine in "secondary" for two weeks before stabilizing/degassing/fining. During this period, I don't believe I ever see bubbles emerge from the wine; there is the occasional "bloorp" from the airlock.

The only thing I think you could do at this point to ensure full fermentation is to make sure the temperature is up in the mid-70's.

 

[jgmann67]

Yep. I took to wrapping the two batches I have to keep from eating any heat from the pad.

 

[heatherd]

What I find is that visible signs of fermentation mostly happen at the beginning, but also are not anything that indicates progress. Meaning the bubbling/foaming/frothing may or may not correlate to your hydrometer reading.

Your plan for another week makes sense. It may be that your hydrometer reading at that time will be 0.992. If not, give it more time to get there.

Once you get where you want on the hydrometer, or it becomes clear that the wine's not going any further, add kmeta to stabilize. That's what stops fermentation, so it's good to be sure you hit your SG before adding it.

The other packet is sorbate. I suspect you're not planning to sweeten your cab? This is one place where I recommend breaking the rules of the instructions. Sorbate doesn't add anything useful for a dry wine, and it has a little bit of a negative flavor impact.

From there, the instructions will say to degas and add fining agents like superkleer or isinglass - and that's perfectly fine to do. Following the instructions initially is good to get the process under your belt.

Additionally, you can degas by stirring or you can degas by waiting. Same thing with the clarifiers; you can use them or you can use time to do that work. Both depend on how soon you want to drink the wine, as they are the process & chemicals used for kits that speed up the process to 6-8 weeks. Up to you - if you already intend to bulk age in a carboy, you may want to wait on these chemicals and see how the wine does in clearing and degassing without them.

If you have questions about gas or clarity, post them before you bottle just to be sure. Clarity is pretty self explanatory, but gas will be a zippy taste, swirly stuff in otherwise clear wine, or it clouds when you move the carboy. There's a test you can do to check for gas.

Also, you'll see Sourgrapes and other folks put quotes around "secondary" because it means something else (MLF) in winemaking terms but it's common to see that in kit instructions in reference to fermentation and carboys. It's a wine lingo thing....

Heather

 

[jgmann67]

I picked that up from another thread - it's not really secondary... But, I'm not sure what to call it otherwise. =)

It's a little zippy, but not overly so. I'm thinking all the stirring in the primary is probably why.

I picked up some k-meta (which I'm really hoping is shorthand for Potassium Metabisulphite) at my LHBS for racking down the road.

 

[heatherd]

Yep, kmeta = potassium metabisulphite

 

[jgmann67]

So, it's day 10 and there's been no substantial change in SG. Currently at 0.998-ish. Won't have time to move things for another few days anyway. But, let's say I get to Friday night or Saturday and the SG is still the same.

Should I wait longer or move to the next step?

 

[DoctorCAD]

So, it's day 10 and there's been no substantial change in SG. Currently at 0.998-ish. Won't have time to move things for another few days anyway. But, let's say I get to Friday night or Saturday and the SG is still the same.

Should I wait longer or move to the next step?

Waiting longer with wine is always a good thing!

At .998, you might not be totally done yet.

 

[jgmann67]

Waiting longer with wine is always a good thing!

At .998, you might not be totally done yet.

I agree, Doc. Longer is typically better. But, if I check the SG over the span of ten days and nothing is happening, am I waiting on something that isn't possible (or is at least highly unlikely)?

What are the risks of prolonged secondary fermentation that only has some pectin added to help with clearing?

I'm willing to wait if I'm able to weigh the benefits/burdens and find the former is greater than the latter.

 

[heatherd]

Waiting doesn't have much risk, we are talking a matter of days. Maybe give it some yeast nutrient to get over the last hump.

 

[jgmann67]

Waiting doesn't have much risk, we are talking a matter of days. Maybe give it some yeast nutrient to get over the last hump.

Okay - two questions here:

How much?

What are the risks?

 

[Floandgary]

When folks rack to a secondary carboy they forget to stir things up before the transfer. What happens is that not enough must gets to go with it and fermentation really slows down. That's why many (myself included) prefer to let fermentation go to dry in the primary THEN rack off the lees to a secondary. Once there you can concentrate on clearing, oaking, stabilizing and whatever else you care to experiment with. Remember to add TIME to the process! LOL

 

[jgmann67]

When folks rack to a secondary carboy they forget to stir things up before the transfer. What happens is that not enough must gets to go with it and fermentation really slows down. That's why many (myself included) prefer to let fermentation go to dry in the primary THEN rack off the lees to a secondary. Once there you can concentrate on clearing, oaking, stabilizing and whatever else you care to experiment with. Remember to add TIME to the process! LOL

I appreciate what you're saying here - a novice mistake. Is the addition of yeast nutrient, though, a sufficient remedy? If so, is it the typical 1 tsp/gal dissolved in a half cup of water and mixed in the must the way to go?

 

[jgmann67]

So, I talked to customer service at RJS (when in doubt, ask the manufacturer, right?). The CSR said to give it a good stir and let it sit a while at 75*. We're already beyond the timeframe for this phase, so another couple days isn't going to hurt. If we get to the weekend and I'm still no further along, we'll revisit the course of action.

 

[heatherd]

Your wine isn't likely to be adversely impacted by waiting for it to ferment to dry. So that is what I mean by little risk.

Stirring, 75 degrees, and a bit of nutrient will help.

 

[jgmann67]

Your wine isn't likely to be adversely impacted by waiting for it to ferment to dry. So that is what I mean by little risk.

Stirring, 75 degrees, and a bit of nutrient will help.

Picked up some Fermax yeast nutrient today at the LHBS.

Let's suppose I go down to check it tonight and it's no further along. This is the RJS Cellar Series Aussie Cab, and current SG is 0.997 (average of the last two readings).

How much Fermax should I put in?

I'm guessing I dissolve it in a half cup of warm water and pour it in. Yes?

 

[cpfan]

Which RJS kit is this? I haven't made any for a few years, but most RJS kits dropped to about .995 (very rarely to .992), but some (Cellar Classic Winery Series) struggled to drop below 1.000.

BTW, when asking about kits, there is a Kits section (I've been ignoring this thread), and be sure to mention the EXACT kit involved. Not every Cab kit works out the same.

Steve

 

[jgmann67]

Steve - it's the Australia Cabernet Sauvignon - Cellar Classic Winery Series, with genuwine skins. It's been in the secondary (carboy) for about two weeks now and not much has happened.

I have a thread going on this batch generally in the beginners section.