Tiny bubbles - to worry?

[raelynn]

I made strawberry wine using the recipe in Jack Keller's book. It fermented dry to 0.991. I bottled last night, and this morning there are tiny bubbles at the top in the necks of some of the bottles. Not lots of bubbles just a few in some. I usually backsweeten wine and use K sorbate, but didn't use it this time because I didn't back sweetened. Now I am worried that maybe the bubbles mean it's still fermenting and I could have a problem. The dates of this batch are:

Start March 26, 2023
First rack April 6, 2023
Second rack May 6, 2023
Third rack June 8, 2023
Bottle August 27, 2023

Do I worry about bottles exploding, or should I be ok?

 

[cmason1957]

I doubt you have alcohol re-fermentation. I think it's more likely you have Malolactic fermentation going on. Strawberries primary acids are primarily Citric and Malic. Did you add K-Meta to the wine when you bottled it? When you say tiny bubbles in the bottles, do you mean like pin-head sized bubbles?? that's the size I think of when I think of malolactic fermentation bubbles. I would get the bottles fairly cold, below about 50F and you should be good. If it is malolactic, I don't think it will produce enough pressure to cause bottles to explode.

 

[raelynn]

I doubt you have alcohol re-fermentation. I think it's more likely you have Malolactic fermentation going on. Strawberries primary acids are primarily Citric and Malic. Did you add K-Meta to the wine when you bottled it? When you say tiny bubbles in the bottles, do you mean like pin-head sized bubbles?? that's the size I think of when I think of malolactic fermentation bubbles. I would get the bottles fairly cold, below about 50F and you should be good. If it is malolactic, I don't think it will produce enough pressure to cause bottles to explode.

Yes they are pinhead size bubbles. I've never noticed bubbles in my wine before, ever, which is why I thought I'd ask. I added kmeta when I did the third racking on June 8, but not again yesterday. How long do they need to be at 50 degrees? My basement is 62-64 degrees, but my fridge space is pretty limited.

 

[cmason1957]

Yes they are pinhead size bubbles. I've never noticed bubbles in my wine before, ever, which is why I thought I'd ask. I added kmeta when I did the third racking on June 8, but not again yesterday. How long do they need to be at 50 degrees? My basement is 62-64 degrees, but my fridge space is pretty limited.

Actually at 62-64F, I am a little bit surprised that MLF would kick off, but MLF from natural sources could be stronger, who knows. The colder temp is to keep the MLF from progressing and causing problems, more taste problems than anything else. You will want to drink this pretty quickly to keep the taste as good as it can be. If it is MLF, the taste will change, probably not for the better.

 

[raelynn]

Actually at 62-64F, I am a little bit surprised that MLF would kick off, but MLF from natural sources could be stronger, who knows. The colder temp is to keep the MLF from progressing and causing problems, more taste problems than anything else. You will want to drink this pretty quickly to keep the taste as good as it can be. If it is MLF, the taste will change, probably not for the better.

Is there anything I can do to stop it? The recipe says to age it at least 6 months and it really isn't amazing tasting yet

 

[cmason1957]

Is there anything I can do to stop it? The recipe says to age it at least 6 months and it really isn't amazing tasting yet

The things that make MLF not happen are K-Meta, alcohol %, temp, ph. and then there is a chemical you can add to keep MLF from happening Lysozome.

Given that you didn't add Malolactic Bacteria, you have a potent version of the bacteria, so the chemical addition might be your best bet.

Perhaps someone else will have a better, easier answer. since the one I am giving you probably means uncorking all, pouring into a carboy, adding the chemical, waiting a bit just to be sure, rebottle.

 

[raelynn]

The things that make MLF not happen are K-Meta, alcohol %, temp, ph. and then there is a chemical you can add to keep MLF from happening Lysozome.

Given that you didn't add Malolactic Bacteria, you have a potent version of the bacteria, so the chemical addition might be your best bet.

Perhaps someone else will have a better, easier answer. since the one I am giving you probably means uncorking all, pouring into a carboy, adding the chemical, waiting a bit just to be sure, rebottle.

The abv is 13.5% and pH is 3.02 - does that change anything? I know nothing about MLF, so I appreciate all of the info you're providing.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I suspect the timing doesn’t line up for MLF to be the culprit. It’s too soon, especially for an ambient bacteria, you didn’t even inoculate with a MLF bacteria. That being said, in Canada it just got warm by June/July? So it could be, but I doubt it.

Have you taken steps to degas the wine? Those tiny bubbles also could be CO2.

 

[raelynn]

I suspect the timing doesn’t line up for MLF to be the culprit. It’s too soon, especially for an ambient bacteria, you didn’t even inoculate with a MLF bacteria. That being said, in Canada it just got warm by June/July? So it could be, but I doubt it.

Have you taken steps to degas the wine? Those tiny bubbles also could be CO2.

It's been pretty warm out since May, but my basement is really cold in the summer because the furnace is turned off (and we have a/c). I use a temperature controlled fermentation box for my primaries because it's so cold down there.

I didn't degas because it lived in carboys for nearly 5 months. I checked on the wine again just now, and most of the bubbles I saw first thing this morning are gone, so I hope that's a good sign? This is the worst of it now:

 

[Rice_Guy]

* a dry wine at 0.991 has little chance of additional fermentation.
* six months is a young wine. I would expect some plant and yeast material to be in suspension (unless you made it like a kit with bentonite etc)
* a cool wine at 60F will be holding CO2, if you don’t taste carbonation it doesn’t matter but if you agitate as in the siphoning into bottles process you will have some foam. ,,, My guess would be poor degassing is your cause for bubbles. For laughs when you open your first bottle microwave an ounce for 30 seconds > stirr > examine how many bubbles are formed.
* what temp is the bottle storage? basement? ,,, if it was warmer than the prior carboy storage this would encourage gas release
* as a general point, if you racked in June with meta I would be adding meta again at bottling.
* I wouldn’t have guessed MLF with 50ppm metabisulphite in june

 

[NoQuarter]

I would wait a week then go ahead and open 1 bottle to check for any pressure build up or funny smell. If you do notice pressure I would open them all, put into a bucket and add k-meta and sorbate to save the batch.
j.Keller has 4 strawberry wine recipes, I like the #3 with added dates and white rasins....That one ages out into a very good wine. most straight strawberry wines ( The ones I have made) get a little funky because of all the seeds I think. which one did you make?

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Those bubbles wouldn’t worry me. Next time a quick degas before bottling.

 

[winemaker81]

I suspect the timing doesn’t line up for MLF to be the culprit. It’s too soon, especially for an ambient bacteria, you didn’t even inoculate with a MLF bacteria. That being said, in Canada it just got warm by June/July? So it could be, but I doubt it.

Objectively, I agree with you. However, there is a corollary to Murphy's Law that says, "the likelihood of something happening is inversely proportional the how much you want it to happen."

So I wouldn't absolutely rule out MLF, but it seems unlikely.

Have you taken steps to degas the wine? Those tiny bubbles also could be CO2.

This seems most likely.

@raelynn, I suggest for future wines you degas right after fermentation is complete. By that I don't mean the extreme whipping that is often recommended. I stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. That's all that is needed to expel a lot of CO2 and jump start the process. It is not intended to completely degas the wine, this happens over succeeding weeks and months.

 

[Rice_Guy]

and add k-meta and sorbate

* If one believes that MLF is creating bubbles, adding sorbate WILL create the geranium taste defect. You will toss the batch if you produce geranium flavor.
* this is strawberry, strawberry is not a major malic acid producer. Your risk from a secondary fermentation and pressure seems minimal.
* at a gravity of 0.991 with some free SO2 left in the system residual gas sounds likely, The first time I had gas I opened and then pasteurized 140F for 45 min. then recorked ,,, ie like a cider. My second time with effervescence I just changed the label to say “sparkling, serve cold”

 

[raelynn]

I would wait a week then go ahead and open 1 bottle to check for any pressure build up or funny smell. If you do notice pressure I would open them all, put into a bucket and add k-meta and sorbate to save the batch.
j.Keller has 4 strawberry wine recipes, I like the #3 with added dates and white rasins....That one ages out into a very good wine. most straight strawberry wines ( The ones I have made) get a little funky because of all the seeds I think. which one did you make?

I made the one that is in his Home Winemaking book. It didnt have dates or raisins in it. I'll look for the one you mentioned, I have a lot of Jack Keller recipes in electronic format.

 

[wineview]

Objectively, I agree with you. However, there is a corollary to Murphy's Law that says, "the likelihood of something happening is inversely proportional the how much you want it to happen."

So I wouldn't absolutely rule out MLF, but it seems unlikely.

Check this video from about 2:40 through 3:10 or so. Lot of Miss information out there.



This seems most likely.

@raelynn, I suggest for future wines you degas right after fermentation is complete. By that I don't mean the extreme whipping that is often recommended. I stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. That's all that is needed to expel a lot of CO2 and jump start the process. It is not intended to completely degas the wine, this happens over succeeding weeks and months.

 

[wineview]

Objectively, I agree with you. However, there is a corollary to Murphy's Law that says, "the likelihood of something happening is inversely proportional the how much you want it to happen."

So I wouldn't absolutely rule out MLF, but it seems unlikely.


This seems most likely.

@raelynn, I suggest for future wines you degas right after fermentation is complete. By that I don't mean the extreme whipping that is often recommended. I stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. That's all that is needed to expel a lot of CO2 and jump start the process. It is not intended to completely degas the wine, this happens over succeeding weeks and months.

 

[wineview]

Not sure if my post took. Check this degassing suggestion. Lot of bad information out there. Degassing portion starts at 2:40 on the video.

 

[winemaker81]

Not sure if my post took. Check this degassing suggestion. Lot of bad information out there. Degassing portion starts at 2:40 on the video.

In your first post, your response was in the middle of the quote of my response. if you click the Toggle BB Code icon in the upper right corner of the editing screen, it will show the codes so you can more easily see what's what.



This video is a prime example of why YouTube is among the worst places to get help in winemaking. The guy recommends stirring the wine for 1 hour to degas and mentioned several times that degassing is about flavor. SMH

The scary part is this is NorthernBrewerTV, so a lot of people are paying attention to it. SHM again

I checked WE's instructions -- they say to stir for 10 minutes by hand or 2 to 4 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod.

FWK says to stir for 2 to 3 minutes by hand, or 30 seconds with a drill.

FYI - regarding my recommendation to stir for 1 minutes with a drill, I developed that timing through practical experimentation.

 

[wineview]

Yeah one reason I posted it, is because Northern Brewer is sanctioning this method.