Other Topping Up Article

[BobF]

Winemaker Mag had a good article by Tim V. in the latest issue.

According to Tim, kits are made 4% xtra strong to allow for topping up with a quart or so of water later on.

His recommendation is to use water and drink the wine you would have used for topping up.

 

[KenS]

Winemaker Mag had a good article by Tim V. in the latest issue.

According to Tim, kits are made 4% xtra strong to allow for topping up with a quart or so of water later on.

His recommendation is to use water and drink the wine you would have used for topping up.

Here we go again

 

[cpfan]

This is one of those "split decisions" so common to home wine making. Some folks agree with Tim, others think that adding water weakens the wine significantly. And I guess others are in between.

Personally, if the wine needs just a bit of water, then thats what I do. If it needs a lot of water, then I get a bottle of wine to add. What is a bit and what is a lot? Whatever I feel like, I guess.

If you have a modern Italian carboy, you will find that it is a litre or so larger than 23 litres (or 6 US gallons). That pretty much guarantees that you should be adding wine.

Steve

 

[rjb222]

There is a lot of misinterpretation in Tims writing on this subject. What Tim is saying when you finish racking the wine can be topped up to the 30 bottle mark not put into a glass carboy and put in enough water to fill that space. You should only have to add about 750 ml or one quart to reach the thirty bottle limit. This is extremely hard to accomplish as we all rack different the measuring devices we use are all slightly different. I personally will add an extra liter of water at the mixing stage I find this is a better way to top up as this is then part of the ferment and the tannins glycerin ETC. are a part of that liquid. When I add water at the end I can always notice it.

 

[robie]

"Split decision" is right!

IMO, red kit wines are already much thinner than their commercial counterparts. If you top off with water they will get even thinner.

 

[joeswine]

to water or not?

I agree ,no water ,if you have to reduce the initial volunm, now you have something to top off with of the original product.just mop

 

[rjb222]

"Split decision" is right!

IMO, red kit wines are already much thinner than their commercial counterparts. If you top off with water they will get even thinner.

The reason is we do not barrel our wines. When properly done barreling wine concentrates flavor , aroma, color, and also gives a wine more viscosity or thickness. This is due to the evaporation process. I have only found one kit series that will come close to commercial wines in viscosity and that is the winery series. I do not top these up at all I only expect to get 26 to 27 bottles per batch with these wines as the skin packs soak up that much liquid. Very sweet and jammy going into the bottle in a years time that marries into the wine and the flavor and aroma explosion in these kits makes the wait worth while.

 

[RickC]

No topping up with water for me either.

 

[JohnnyRico]

No topping up with water for me either.

Did it once, never again.

 

[dmulligan]

I have only found one kit series that will come close to commercial wines in viscosity and that is the winery series. I do not top these up at all I only expect to get 26 to 27 bottles per batch with these wines as the skin packs soak up that much liquid.

How do you avoid oxidation if you do not top up?

 

[rjb222]

I bottle on time. If you ferment and bottle at the proper times keep your sufite levels up you will not oxidize your wine. Oxidizing a wine is actually a fairly slow process. If you bulk age then you have to top up then make two kits and use the same wine to top up with.

 

[BobF]

There is a lot of misinterpretation in Tims writing on this subject. What Tim is saying when you finish racking the wine can be topped up to the 30 bottle mark not put into a glass carboy and put in enough water to fill that space. You should only have to add about 750 ml or one quart to reach the thirty bottle limit. This is extremely hard to accomplish as we all rack different the measuring devices we use are all slightly different. I personally will add an extra liter of water at the mixing stage I find this is a better way to top up as this is then part of the ferment and the tannins glycerin ETC. are a part of that liquid. When I add water at the end I can always notice it.

What I found interesting is the hard-core anti-water sentiment that abounds, yet a kit rep is willing to recommend water, knowing full well that the company's reputation is on the line.

No doubt there is a difference between what he recommends and what people end up doing.

I always top up batches with the same wine from the same batch by making the volumes larger up front - the only kits I do are IM kits though. For those I use bottles from previous batches.

 

[RickC]

Some of us use glass marbles which have been sanitized. I sometimes use similar wine but have started using the marbles recently.

 

[robie]

How do you avoid oxidation if you do not top up?

Be careful the advice you receive and follow. On this forum, all the moderators and all experienced wine makers I know, are in agreement that it is considered vital to keep wine properly topped off after secondary fermentation is completed.

Even during the relatively short time your wine is clearing, it needs to be topped off, either by utilizing something like marbles, which take up space in the carboy, or utilizing a like wine for topping off.

It makes no difference if you bottle based on the schedule or not. If some individuals have not experienced problems when omitting the topping off of their wine, consider this as nothing more than them having been very, very lucky.

If you do not top off, your wine will become more oxidized than had you topped off properly. Maybe not enough to show up if the wine is drunk early, but enough that it will have a negative affect later down the line.

 

[Gary_D]

As a relative newbie to winemaking...not wine drinking I have found this exchange very interesting. As of this time I have made about 10 of the different wine expert limited editions and high end kits. Some of these kits come with so much concentrate that very little water had to be added, but I have followed the instructions so I wouldn't mess up an expensive kit.

Thanks for the education!

 

[Bacci]

How do you avoid oxidation if you do not top up?

After stablilzation/clearing stage, I rack down my better bottle to a 5 gallon glass carboy plus a 3 liter jug, then bottle the 3 liter after 3 months and rack the 5 gallon for another 3/4 months of bulk aging. I've got 4 bottle to sample along the way.

 

[joeswine]

That's the idea

That's the idea, about racking downward this will now do you something to top off with of the original you started with, though some people don't like to do that I do it all the time ,once again, it gives me what I started . For topping

 

[JOESILVA401]

I start with 5 gal carboys; despite the rather negative commentary I received on this site. Let me explain! The very first kit I ever made (Selection Estates- old vine zin), I followed exact instructions and topped primary bucket with water to US gal mark; only to end up with a Super Low 1.080 starting SG! Talk about a watered down Zin in the making. Here's my rationale now: I don't focus on the total volume of wine when starting (5gal/6gal), but rather a set range for my starting SG so it will be more true to the wine and the kit contents. So with my red kits it's 1.095-1.100 and whites 1.090-1.095. I add small amounts of distilled H2O, stir, and then measure for the SG. In most cases I yield a little over 5 gallons, but never close to 6! After primary I rack to 5 gal carboy and rack excess into spare wine bottles that all get topped with airlock. Throughout clarifying and stabilizing and aging process I top the 5gal carboy with the wine from the kit in my spare wine bottles; so end result will be 100% true to kit contents; with no outside influence of outside store bought wine.

 

[pm24]

I'm pretty much a novice, with only 11 kits done. Early on, though, I bought a 5-pound bottle of CO2 and used it to purge the ullage of my 6-gallon carboy filled with ready-to-age wine that had all the CO2 sucked out of it at 75° F. I quickly plugged it with a silicone "cork" that has a kind of mushroom cap on it that allows gas to exit the carboy but not enter it. I had a question about a WinExpert kit and called their help line. The nice lady who answered was extremely upset when I told her I was using CO2 to exclude oxygen from the wine instead of topping up with either water or spare wine. She said, "You're trying to get *rid* of CO2; you shouldn't be adding it!" She mentioned that WinExpert recommends up to a quart of water can be added to reduce the ullage, but I didn't want to dilute the wine.

Later, I began to think about the natural inclination of CO2 to dissolve in water (wine), and I wondered what would replace it in the ullage if that happened. One thing is certain: it wouldn't be oxygen. So far, I haven't been able to answer that question because, as the wine cools to basement temperature from the 75° at which I sucked the CO2 out, there is a partial vacuum formed in the ullage. I can't distinguish *that* vacuum from a possible vacuum that would occur if the CO2 was, indeed, pulled into the wine at the cooler temperature. My guess is there is an equilibrium established between the CO2's attempt to mate up with the wine and the temperature-caused lowering of pressure in the ullage. There definitely is a partial vacuum when I pull the silicone cork to bottle the wine, but I don't know how much of it is attributable to temperature change and how much to the solution of CO2 into the wine. The small amount of CO2 I add has no effect on the taste of the wine, so far as I have been able to tell.

- Paul

 

[robie]

Unlike argon, CO2 can and will become absorbed into the wine. As the lady said, that is not what you want. Although, if you have a vacuum pump setup for degassing, you can top off with CO2, then vacuum degas again just before you bottle. Others do prefer this method, but I prefer not to re-introduce CO2 back into the wine.

One thing to consider is that bungs are just not as "air-tight" as some might think. When large differences in temperature and/or atmospheric pressures occur, unless your wine is in a Better Bottle, where the sides can flex to absorb some of those changes, something has to give and that something is usually the bung will allow small amounts of air (gas) to sip in/out.

Similar things can happen with air locks. Have you ever filled your air lock, then in only a day or two come back and find it nearly empty? That's likely because the liquid in the air lock got sucked down into your wine when a sizable atmospheric change occurred. This is the reason why I like the S shaped air locks more than the three-piece air locks. Although in this extreme case, they will allow air into the wine, the S style is less likely to allow the liquid to be sucked into the wine. This is better, because once you loose your liquid, the wine is open to air until you discover and correct the liquid level problem.