WineXpert Two different yeast packs in one kit

[KenS]

Just opened up a Winexpert Eclipse Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc kit. They included two packages of yeast, one is EC-1118 and the other is K1-V1116. This is the first time I've seen this, and both are 5g, so this is twice as much yeast as I've seen in my other kits as well.

Has anybody else seen this? I know the instructions say that if there are multiple packages of any ingredients, then just put them both in when called for, but I'm curious about how two different strains of yeast will behave...

 

[ibglowin]

Yes, this is the standard yeast for this kit. The V1116 is very strong and a good yeast for white wines. The EC-1118 is there as a back up just in case.

From the Lalvin website:

ICV K1V-1116
Saccharomyces cerevisiae

Origin
Selected by the Institut coopératif du vin in Montpellier among numerous killer strains isolated and studied by Pierre Barre at INRA, the K1V-1116 strain was the first competitive factor yeast to go into commercial production and has become one of the most widely used active dried wine yeasts in the world.

Oenological properties and applications
The K1V-1116 strain is a rapid starter with a constant and complete fermentation between 10° and 35°C (50° and 95°F), capable of surviving a number of difficult conditions, such as low nutrient musts and high levels of sulfur dioxide (SO2) or sugar. Wines fermented with the K1V-1116 have very low volatile acidity, hydrogen sulfide (H2S) and foam production.

The K1V-1116 strain tends to express the freshness of white grape varieties such as Sauvignon Blanc, Chenin Blanc and Seyval. The natural fresh fruit aromas are retained longer than with other standard yeast strains. Fruit wines and wines made from concentrates poor in nutrient balance benefit from the capacity of K1V-1116 to adapt to difficult fermentation conditions. Restarts stuck fermentations.

 

[KenS]

Thanks for the quick reply. Good info!

 

[thirstyquaker]

I know this thread is ancient, but it's what I found when searching for this problem. To be clear (since the above comment implies one is a backup for stuck fermentation), I contacted Winexpert and they said that both yeasts should be added on Day One. In my case this was a EC-1118 and RC-212 for an Amarone.

 

[cmason1957]

I know this thread is ancient, but it's what I found when searching for this problem. To be clear (since the above comment implies one is a backup for stuck fermentation), I contacted Winexpert and they said that both yeasts should be added on Day One. In my case this was a EC-1118 and RC-212 for an Amarone.

To fully insure that your wine kit is made to the directions provided by WineExpert, that is absolutely a true statement and the way they say the kit should be made. It's their directions, clearly spelled out. It will produce a wine in the manner WineExpert intended it to and if there are issues, they are more likely to make it good (possibly providing a replacement kit).

However, it's your kit and you can make it however you want to. Heck you can even throw both of those yeasts away and use your own. If you choose to do this, you have voided the warranty from WineExpert and are on your own. Same is true, if you add anything not provided in the kit to your wine. But, it's yours and you are free to do as you wish.

I think the last time I made this kit, I only used the RC-212 and it turned out fine, but that was my choice. I know others add both at the start, others start with the RC-212 and before it finishes add the EC-1118 as insurance that the fermentation finishes.

 

[sour_grapes]

I know this thread is ancient, but it's what I found when searching for this problem. To be clear (since the above comment implies one is a backup for stuck fermentation), I contacted Winexpert and they said that both yeasts should be added on Day One. In my case this was a EC-1118 and RC-212 for an Amarone.

I know that this is a common combination in kits, but I find it really puzzling. With regard to the "killer factor," yeast come in 3 types: those that secrete a toxic protein that can kill sensitive yeasts, those that are sensitive to this protein, and those that are neutral (neither sensitive to it nor produce it.) EC-1118 is a killer variety, while RC-212 is a senstive variety. https://www.lallemandwine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Quick-Yeast-References-Chart_2018_LR.pdf Doesn't seem like a good combination to me.

 

[Swedeman]

while RC-212 is a senstive variety.

It is marked as neutral in this document though: https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Yeast-RC212.pdf

 

[sour_grapes]

It is marked as neutral in this document though: https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Yeast-RC212.pdf

Well that is puzzling...

 

[Swedeman]

Well that is puzzling...

Agree, but it would make sense given that WE provides both.

 

[cmason1957]

I know that this is a common combination in kits, but I find it really puzzling. With regard to the "killer factor," yeast come in 3 types: those that secrete a toxic protein that can kill sensitive yeasts, those that are sensitive to this protein, and those that are neutral (neither sensitive to it nor produce it.) EC-1118 is a killer variety, while RC-212 is a senstive variety. https://www.lallemandwine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Quick-Yeast-References-Chart_2018_LR.pdf Doesn't seem like a good combination to me.

I read the Lallemand link as saying RC-212 is Neutral to the competitive factor.

I just never liked the not knowing what you might get part of it. Seems sometimes the RC-212 does most of the work, others the EC-1118. Maybe it doesn't matter that much.

 

[sour_grapes]

I read the Lallemand link as saying RC-212 is Neutral to the competitive factor.

I just never liked the not knowing what you might get part of it. Seems sometimes the RC-212 does most of the work, others the EC-1118. Maybe it doesn't matter that much.

Just making sure: Are we looking at the same thing on the chart:

 

[cmason1957]

Just making sure: Are we looking at the same thing on the chart:

View attachment 109861

No, I gotta stop having six shots of tequila with lunch or something, I clicked on the other link and got cornfused, or forgot which link I clicked on. On that murphy and son link, it certainly says neutral to the competitive factor, but in your link it does say sensitive and here - https://admin.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RC212-TDS-ENG-Lalvin.pdf it says "Competitive killer factor: no, Lalvin Bourgovin RC212™ is a sensitive strain". Yet again, I am so cornfused.

But then again, it makes me say why put both in at the same time???

 

[winemaker81]

I know this thread is ancient, but it's what I found when searching for this problem. To be clear (since the above comment implies one is a backup for stuck fermentation), I contacted Winexpert and they said that both yeasts should be added on Day One. In my case this was a EC-1118 and RC-212 for an Amarone.

I have a Zin kit in production that is high OG and came with RC-212 and EC-1118. I initially inoculated with the RC-212 and let it run until the SG was below 1.010, when the ferment really slowed down. At that point I inoculate with EC-1118 to finish the ferment, which it did.

I suggest you do the same -- there is no risk and you get the full qualities of the RC-212.

Well that is puzzling...

Probably human error. Regarding RC-212, I've seen different charts where the ABV tolerance is 14% and 16%, so either it has changed over time or someone goofed.

 

[sour_grapes]

No, I gotta stop having six shots of tequila with lunch or something,

You don't have to stop. But you gotta start sharing, Craig!

 

[cmason1957]

You don't have to stop. But you gotta start sharing, Craig!

91 more days.(but who's counting) and I can drink as much as I want at lunch.

 

[bubbas45]

I have a Zin kit in production that is high OG and came with RC-212 and EC-1118. I initially inoculated with the RC-212 and let it run until the SG was below 1.010, when the ferment really slowed down. At that point I inoculate with EC-1118 to finish the ferment, which it did.

I suggest you do the same -- there is no risk and you get the full qualities of the RC-212.

Do you make a starter for both inoculations?

thanks, bws

 

[winemaker81]

Do you make a starter for both inoculations?

Yes. While I could have just sprinkled the EC-1118 on top and it probably would have worked, the must was nearing 16% ABV, which is harder on any yeast to take hold. Making a starter upped the odds in the yeast's favor.