Unoccupied driverless trucks coming to Texas by 2025, companies say

[jswordy]

Driverless trucks with no humans on board will soon cruise Texas highways if three startup firms have their way, despite objections from critics who say financial pressures, not safety, is behind the timetable.

After years of testing, Aurora Innovation Inc., Kodiak Robotics Inc. and Gatik AI Inc. expect to remove safety drivers from trucks that are being guided by software and an array of sensors including cameras, radar and lidar, which sends pulses of light that bounces off objects. The companies have already hauled cargo for big names such as Walmart Inc., Kroger Co., FedEx Corp. and Tyson Foods Inc.

https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...ompanies-plan-to-ditch-human-copilots-in-2024

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Driverless trucks with no humans on board will soon cruise Texas highways if three startup firms have their way, despite objections from critics who say financial pressures, not safety, is behind the timetable.

After years of testing, Aurora Innovation Inc., Kodiak Robotics Inc. and Gatik AI Inc. expect to remove safety drivers from trucks that are being guided by software and an array of sensors including cameras, radar and lidar, which sends pulses of light that bounces off objects. The companies have already hauled cargo for big names such as Walmart Inc., Kroger Co., FedEx Corp. and Tyson Foods Inc.

https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...ompanies-plan-to-ditch-human-copilots-in-2024

Lke the driverless cars in Austin, SF and LA?
Crash, boom, bang!

Hold my beer and watch this!~!!!

 

[jswordy]

Lke the driverless cars in Austin, SF and LA?
Crash, boom, bang!

Hold my beer and watch this!~!!!

Exactly. They've been running them in Texas for awhile now, but they always had a ride-along backup driver.

 

[ratflinger]

Wonderful, lawyers getting rich on big rig wrecks here. They're probably the number one supporters.

 

[ChuckD]

I think it’s inevitable, and long haul trucking on interstate highways is a good use of the technology. but now? I don’t think the technology is ready

 

[GSMChris]

i‘m another doubter in the readiness of the technology.

In a prior job, I was involved in some of the early self driving car work. The biggest challenge wasn’t getting the car to drive on a closed track. The issue was when the software had to respond to humans driving other cars and behaving unpredictably. For example, if the car approached an intersection with cars coming into the intersection on their right. If those cars did a California rolling stop, the software would lock up - essentially saying “but I got here first but I can’t move until they stop, so I’ll just wait for them to stop, but they aren’t stopping so I’ll just wait here until they stop,….” it took several weeks to fix that scenario.

As a human driver, I have a hard enough time with other humans who do lane changes who fail to use their turn signals, don’t look before they merge, merge and then put on their brakes, etc… All of these items will be challenges for the truck computers. Also, in San Francisco, one of the issues was when firefighters responded to an emergency and were directing traffic either into the bike lane or into the “wrong way lane”. The taxis would freeze up, not wanting to break a rule, and made the traffic situation worse.

All of this will get fixed in time - but I think there is a lot more work needed.

 

[bstnh1]

I doubt the technology will ever be 100% ready. Electronics and software are always failing. Everyday items from robotic vacuums to energy distribution systems routinely fail.;; factory robots have attacked people; space rockets and probes costing millions of dollars have had mechanical. electronic and software failures. Software failures are around us every day. And self driving vehicles would have to rely very heavily on software. If we can get 100% perfect and failure free software, then it might come to be. But that will never happen. Reminds me of the announcement in the fully automatic pilotless plane .... "Relax and enjoy your flight. Absolutely nothing can go wrong... go wrong... go wrong... go wrong .....

 

[cmason1957]

Having written software for nearly 40 years now. It is impossible to have 100% perfect and failure free software. Or at least to prove that it is that way. Every software program depends on so much other software outside of it's control. Do we expect people to be 100% perfect and failure free?? Why would we think something made by people could be that? It will be good enough and do the right thing most of the time, just like people.

I can't wait for all cars, trucks, buses, etc. to be driverless and always do the right thing personally, but it's still very far off.

 

[winemaker81]

My understanding is that self-driving vehicles scan the environment for things such as signs, lines on the road, etc. Linework may not exist on new pavement, may be too badly eroded on existing pavement, or may be contradictory due to patches and construction. I drove through a construction area recently where there were 3 sets of lines and all were incomplete, e.g., ended abruptly. If *I* have a hard time figuring out where the lanes are, how will software?

Self-driving appears to be safe in limited environments -- but the real world roads are far too chaotic for safety.

One problem no one has noted is that when a driver screws up, we know who is at fault. When a self-driving car screws up, do we blame the owner, the vehicle vendor, or the software vendor?

 

[GSMChris]

While not directly related to self driving trucks, I thought this wasn’t too big of a digression.

My nephew works for John Deere on this product… I keep telling him I’d be happy to be a beta tester

https://www.deere.com/en/autonomous/

 

[winemaker81]

While not directly related to self driving trucks, I thought this wasn’t too big of a digression.

My nephew works for John Deere on this product… I keep telling him I’d be happy to be a beta tester

https://www.deere.com/en/autonomous/

Interesting. I read the blurb -- it requires uploading maps and information, so the self-driving tractor works in a known environment.

 

[jswordy]

Interesting. I read the blurb -- it requires uploading maps and information, so the self-driving tractor works in a known environment.

You took the words out of my mouth. As a farmer, I have followed autonomous ag for a long time. The crop field is KNOWN to GPS (that's how they laser-level fields with tractors and dirt pans out where @ibglowin lives for flood irrigation), and they still have issues with tractors running off, hitting utility poles, etc. The field can be geo-fenced to cause the tractor to die if it wanders, but then you need a human intervention and that defeats the purpose. That said, John Deere (whose global home office is in my hometown) is massively invested in new technologies along these lines. They are driven by the fact that rural areas are being emptied of available labor. Still, it is much more a known quantity than traffic.

 

[jswordy]

Very interesting replies! My questions have to do with liability, as well: If two driverless vehicles collide, who is at fault? How about a driverless and a driver vehicle? What about one-car accidents? The layers of possible fault run deep: Car maker, hardware maker, software maker, component supplier, etc. That'll all have to be worked out legally.

I watch Waymos stop and start, lurching their way around a traffic circle on a sunny day in Scottsdale, AZ. Not very confident. And Tesla's autodrive fails have made me even more skeptical. The Texas trucks will likely run on long highways there that have few vehicles (but are posted at 80 mph). Still...

 

[winemaker81]

The crop field is KNOWN to GPS (that's how they laser-level fields with tractors and dirt pans out where @ibglowin lives for flood irrigation), and they still have issues with tractors running off, hitting utility poles, etc.

I grew up on a tiny dairy farm (my dad had 20 milking head), and our tractor was a '63 Ford 3 cylinder diesel. Among farming tractors, that's tiny -- the rear wheels were maybe 5' in diameter. However, put that tractor in gear and let it go, and it would not stop. My dad pushed 1' diameter trees over with it.

The big ones? YOW! They could do major league damage if unchecked. I'd be skittish about letting one run unsupervised.

The Texas trucks will likely run on long highways there that have few vehicles (but are posted at 80 mph).

US Federal law (state laws follow suit) allow up to 80,000 lbs including the truck, trailer, and load. Oversize overweight loads in normal looking trucks can be over 132,000 lbs (anything over 80,000 lbs needs a OSOW permit). Visualize that hitting anything at 80 mph ...

I see folks play chicken with tractor-trailers on a regular basis. Consider that a 4,000 lb car (lot of larger SUVs) weighs 5% of what a TT at the Federal max weight is. Unlike in the movies, the TT will go through the SUV like it wasn't there ... which it won't be.

I always play nice with truckers.

 

[vinny]

My understanding is that self-driving vehicles scan the environment for things such as signs, lines on the road, etc. Linework may not exist on new pavement, may be too badly eroded on existing pavement, or may be contradictory due to patches and construction. I drove through a construction area recently where there were 3 sets of lines and all were incomplete, e.g., ended abruptly. If *I* have a hard time figuring out where the lanes are, how will software?

Self-driving appears to be safe in limited environments -- but the real world roads are far too chaotic for safety.

One problem no one has noted is that when a driver screws up, we know who is at fault. When a self-driving car screws up, do we blame the owner, the vehicle vendor, or the software vendor?

You make a good point, in harsh climates like Alberta by the time they get the road lines painted back on, we are weeks away from working them off. It is a yearly thing to repaint them, and we often have roads that are covered in snow/frost for months and only have two tire lines for reference. After a snow storm those tire tracks are dead center on a 2 lane highway and only shift towards the shoulder where people meet on the hwy.

I think it would be a great idea to have special roads where these things can drive themselves on to major areas and then people can drive them in. Then I can drive around in peace knowing I only have the predictability of human error to contend with.

Not to mention that the world is a better place without replacing all of the jobs with machines. I still refuse to use self checkout, good luck getting me to let my vehicle park for me.

But of course that is just my ever humble opinion...

 

[joeswine]

Exactly. They've been running them in Texas for awhile now, but they always had a ride-along backup driver.

So what was the point?

 

[Christopher Anderson]

You make a good point, in harsh climates like Alberta by the time they get the road lines painted back on, we are weeks away from working them off. It is a yearly thing to repaint them, and we often have roads that are covered in snow/frost for months and only have two tire lines for reference. After a snow storm those tire tracks are dead center on a 2 lane highway and only shift towards the shoulder where people meet on the hwy.

I think it would be a great idea to have special roads where these things can drive themselves on to major areas and then people can drive them in. Then I can drive around in peace knowing I only have the predictability of human error to contend with.

Not to mention that the world is a better place without replacing all of the jobs with machines. I still refuse to use self checkout, good luck getting me to let my vehicle park for me.

But of course that is just my ever humble opinion...

I understand there are only two seasons in the northern tiers: Winter and road construction...

 

[winemaker81]

I understand there are only two seasons in the northern tiers: Winter and road construction...

Not true. I grew up in Upstate NY and we had four seasons: Almost Winter, Winter, More Winter, and Construction.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Not true. I grew up in Upstate NY and we had four seasons: Almost Winter, Winter, More Winter, and Construction.

White Christmases are beautiful. White Easters sux. Not white. black and dirty.

 

[jswordy]

So what was the point?

Test bed runs.