Updates to older recipes/Yeast nutrition

[The Adversary]

Hey all.

I'm mostly interested in making fruit wines and I've read through quite a few recipes, mostly by Keller and Massaccesi. I've noticed that they're fairly old and I was just wondering if there are any updates or areas of improvement to those recipes...especially in the area of yeast nutrition. I've been making mead for about 2 years now and I use Go-Ferm in my yeast starter and fermaid O and K along with DAP for staggered nutrient additions. Those additions seem to really speed up the process and make my meads drinkable much sooner than later. Does anyone know if I can use these same protocols with fruit wine?

Any other tips/advice/updates on older recipes are appreciated. I'd love to know what, if anything, you do differently from the old school recipes.

Edit: I've also noticed that none of the older recipes add fruit after fermentation is done. Is that not something we do with wines?

 

[hounddawg]

wish I was smart enough to answer that,
I make fruit/country wines,,,
IMHO,
I add double or more to the amounts of fruit/berries/concentrates in all my ferments,
I never add any fruit/berry/concentrate after the ferment,
country wines need to be back sweetened to bring out more flavor,
that being said, if you like yours drier, then only back sweeten to bring out the flavor,
I have never used a yeast starter, I make up my must, and put my yeast into it, stirring twice daily using a cordless drill.
there are many, many ways to make wine, but your most important ingredient is patience ,,,,
others may have experience adding flavor one way or another after ferment, but if you add enough before ferment, you'll not need to.
country wines are a completely different animal than a traditional grape based wine,,,
there it a country wine making thread in the forum on here,,,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

www.colomafrozen.com
hope this helps ass well.
when I make a concentrate i use more concentrate and less water then called for,
which gives more flavor,,,
Dawg

 

[BigDaveK]

How old do you mean by "older recipes"? Yeast on a piece of toast old?

I stopped using recipes after about 2 months of wine making. They're good for ideas and a VERY general guide.

I increase the fruit (or vegetable or flower or herb) by at least 50%. Add sugar till my SG is between 1.085-1.090, add acid till the pH is around 3.5. Nutrient, pectic enzyme, maybe tannin, maybe raisins, depends on what I'm making. For a 1 gallon batch I aim for 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gallons to account for lees and have extra for topping up.

My starter is usually warm water and some sugar.

Don't be too gung ho about getting a fast ferment. Slower is usually better for flavor.

 

[winemaker81]

Any other tips/advice/updates on older recipes are appreciated. I'd love to know what, if anything, you do differently from the old school recipes.

As already noted, Keller recipes are low on fruit. I suggest reading multiple recipes so you can compare them. Also, listen to Richard and Dave, as both are fruit wine makers, and other experienced fruit wine makers may chime in.

Before starting a batch, start a new thread and post the recipe you intend to use. You should get useful feedback.

I've also noticed that none of the older recipes add fruit after fermentation is done. Is that not something we do with wines?

A lot of old recipes started with a lot of sugar and used a low potency yeast, so the fermentation would end when yeast produced more alcohol than it could survive in. The remaining sugar was stable -- this is a method of backsweetening wine before the availability of sorbate + K-meta. The addition of extra fruit would boost the fruit flavor. If you are using wine yeast, trying to use this method requires a LOT of sugar and the wine will have high ABV (alcohol by volume), for most yeasts 16%+.

The "modern" approach (described above) is to start with a lot more fruit OR use all fruit/no water (which requires a LOT more fruit), add sugar to achieve the desired potential ABV, add commercial yeast, and ferment dry. Give the wine time to clear (which is in months, not weeks), and stabilize with potassium sorbate + potassium metabisulphite (prevents renewed fermentation), OR bulk age the wine at least 9 months, after which any remaining yeast is dead. Then backsweeten to taste -- most fruit wines benefit from at least a bit of sugar, as it brings out the fruit aroma + flavor. Many fruit wines are bland and/or astringent when bone dry.

Richard (Dawg) bulk ages 2 years and produces high potency wines (~18% ABV), so he's used 2 avenues to prevent a renewed fermentation (long aging + high ABV).