Use of oak chips in making Cabernet Sauvignon

[Daniel Moy]

Hi, my name is Dan and I am new to making wine in kits. I just purchased a Master Vintner Sommelier Select Old Vine Cabernet Sauvignon wine kit. It contains three bags of oak chips so I am assuming that they are American, French, and Hungarian oak. Question: Does anyone know if I am supposed to add all the chips from all three bags to make my 6 gallons of wine? Or..am I only supposed to add one type or another in certain quantities? Any advise you can provide would be very much appreciated. I am just starting to do this and do not want to screw this up! Thx

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

You just did the wisest thing you could do as a new winemaker -- you asked questions first! It's far easier to set you on a good path than it is to fix problems.

I found your kit instructions on the NorthernBrewer.com site -- look at days 6-14 -- the oak is aging oak. That means you add it after fermentation is complete, while the wine is aging.

Read the instructions, start-to-finish, 3 times. Make notes and post questions if something doesn't make sense. The only stupid question is the one you don't post.

Winemaking is very easy, but the first time you do it, it can be scary. Before you start the kit, get comfortable with how the process goes. You will do fine -- we have beginners start on this forum every week, and 99% do just fine, if they follow the instructions.

 

[Daniel Moy]

Welcome to WMT!

You just did the wisest thing you could do as a new winemaker -- you asked questions first! It's far easier to set you on a good path than it is to fix problems.

I found your kit instructions on the NorthernBrewer.com site -- look at days 6-14 -- the oak is aging oak. That means you add it after fermentation is complete, while the wine is aging.

Read the instructions, start-to-finish, 3 times. Make notes and post questions if something doesn't make sense. The only stupid question is the one you don't post.

Winemaking is very easy, but the first time you do it, it can be scary. Before you start the kit, get comfortable with how the process goes. You will do fine -- we have beginners start on this forum every week, and 99% do just fine, if they follow the instructions.

Thanks Bryan for your feedback. I have three bags of oak chips that they provided to me. Am I supposed to add all three bags or just one or a blend? How much should I add to the wine in second fermentation? Another question I have is..do i throw away all the juice that came with the wine skins and just use the skins in a bag that i put in the fermentor? seems like a lot of good juice to just throw away but not sure what i should do..pls advise..thx.

 

[Daniel Moy]

hrello.. I need answers to my specific questions and not a computer generated response..thx

 

[winemaker81]

I answered your question. It's not my problem if you can't be bothered to read it and invest time in understanding what you're about to attempt.

 

[Jim Welch]

hrello.. I need answers to my specific questions and not a computer generated response..thx

winemaker81 is no robot my friend, and I agree with his response. You'd behoove yourself to listen.

 

[Shurt1073]

winemaker81 is no robot my friend, and I agree with his response. You'd behoove yourself to listen.

+1

 

[Ohio Bob]

hrello.. I need answers to my specific questions and not a computer generated response..thx

How do we know you’re not a computer?

 

[Jim Welch]

How do we know you’re not a computer?

Indeed, I'd not considered that but you're right!

 

[sour_grapes]

Add all three bags.

 

[Shurt1073]

Guessing all answers are right .... not listening is the wrong answer.

 

[vinny]

hrello.. I need answers to my specific questions and not a computer generated response..thx

This is the most perplexing response I have ever seen to sound advice.

If you throw out the juice from the skins you are throwing out flavor. You were well advised to read and understand the instructions!

 

[Bill Pet]

I don't know anything in answer to the question but I also don't understand what has happened in this thread. Why can't someone give a simple answer to a simple question, or at least go beyond "read the instructions"? My experience with instructions is they often leave much to be desired. I've purchased kits with oak packets where there was no mention of them at all in the instructions. Sorry I had to vent.

 

[Daniel Moy]

I still don't know the difference between the three oak packets that i received in the kit. There are two larger ones..one light and one dark and a smaller bag. On the web, it says to not add more than 4 oz of oak for every 6 gallons of wine. When I weighted all three packets, they came to 7.4. Does everyone add this much oak to make 6 gallons of wine? I just don't want the entire batch to taste like wood. Please advise what the different packets are and confirm that i need to add all of them to the second fermentation process. thx.

 

[Jim Welch]

are some of these packets cubes and some chips or powder? If so, the chips/powder goes into the primary during fermentation and the cubes are saved for aging in a secondary.

 

[Daniel Moy]

BTW, All the packers are oak chips and directions say to add it in the second fermentation.

 

[Jim Welch]

Well there you go, being new I'd advise you to just follow those directions. If you choose to do this more you can tweak things a bit with later kits. Following the directions should give you a base line AND you'll get some experience under your belt.
But that does sound like a lot of oak

 

[ceeaton]

I still don't know the difference between the three oak packets that i received in the kit. There are two larger ones..one light and one dark and a smaller bag. On the web, it says to not add more than 4 oz of oak for every 6 gallons of wine. When I weighted all three packets, they came to 7.4. Does everyone add this much oak to make 6 gallons of wine? I just don't want the entire batch to taste like wood. Please advise what the different packets are and confirm that i need to add all of them to the second fermentation process. thx.

I found this on one of the websites that sell the kit in one of the reviews:
-----
So far excellent! Just recommend clarifications regarding wood chips.
Great timing on your part for review - just now ready to rack to secondary. Directions confusing to me I received 3 different packages of wood chips unlabeled with directions stating if you received chips add to secondary before racking as a longtime winemaker I have never mixed 3 different chips total weight 7 ounces in 6 gallons of wine seems a little woody to me would like clarification of type chips and dosage.
-----
So that is telling me the kit is supposed to come with three packs of chips. So like you said, the directions say to put them in the secondary and rack the wine on top when the time comes.

Now if you are worried about too much oak, you're in luck. Oak chips give up their flavor in a matter of weeks, not months like cubes and spirals or Xoakers. You could add a pack when you rack to the secondary, then when to do the next racking in a few months, try the wine and see if it's too oaky. Do remember though that the oak will lessen as the wine ages. If it's okay to you, you can add the second pack and age for a month or so and repeat the process. If it's too oaky at that point, don't add any of the other chips.

Hope that helps. Sorry, haven't made that kit in the past.

Edit: this is from the MoreWinemaking.com website:

The extraction rates for the different oaks can be broken
down as follows, from quickest to slowest:
• Chips (around 7 days)
• Cubes (2 months minimum, up to 1 year of useful life)
• Segments (3 months minimum, 18 months of useful life)
• Staves (3 months minimum, useful life of 2 years)

Link to the whole article:
https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/oakinfopaper09.pdf

 

[vinny]

This kit is quite a bit different from the instructions included with the kits I am familiar with. I won't confuse you with the differences.

Sanitation is a crucial step. You don't want to pick up any contaminants from your tools so use your preferred wine specific sanitizer and clean anything that will touch the juice or wine at any step.

Add your juice to the bucket. Top it up with water to the 6 gallon mark. Mix well. Then take a gravity reading with your hydrometer. You want 1.080 or higher.

My kits always came with a bag for the grape skins. I would highly recommend you find one if one is not supplied, otherwise racking is a real pain and you lose more wine in transfer. Add the skins to your bag in a bowl and then transfer the bag to your primary bucket. Add the juice from the bowl as well.

As you fill the bucket with water aim to be in the 20C or 70F temperature range. If you are under or over 5 degrees let the bucket come to room temperature, then sprinkle your yeast on top of the juice.

At this point your instructions say to seal the lid and put it under airlock. You can choose to do this or leave the lid on loose. Yeast needs oxygen to reproduce in the beginning stages. Most here ferment in open buckets and put a loose lid or towel over the bucket and stir daily for the first few days. Within 4-6 days your gravity reading should reach 1.020. At this point the instructions say to add all of your oak to a clean carboy, squeeze out the skins, and transfer the wine to the carboy. All 3 packages of oak go in at this point.

This is the stage where air starts to matter. Close off the top of your carboy with an airlock and bung.

Between day 15-27. When fermentation is complete. The air bubbling in your airlock will slow and the gravity should read .998 or lower. At this point you want to transfer to a clean carboy and you want to leave all solids behind, Fruit and yeast sludge and all oak stay in the old carboy and you only want juice. Now you want to degas, agitate the wine, and add in the fining packages listed in the instructions.

It is important to fill the carboy to the top. Buy a bottle of wine if you need to and fill to within 2 inches of the lip. Water is not recommended it will make the wine watery, put your airlock back on. sanitize if needed. Now allow to sit for 14-20 days to clear the wine.

At this point your instructions claim the wine to be done and you can transfer to another carboy to leave any sediment behind and bottle.

No one here would be likely to follow this last set of instructions. I personally do not add the clearing agents. I rack off of the solids (oak and yeast) and then age for at least 3 months in the carboy under airlock. The wine will clear naturally in this time so the clearing agents aren't needed.

As it is your first kit you will likely be eager to taste it, so you can bottle, but it will taste much better with the additional 3 months. Wine changes a lot in the first 6 months and patience really pays off. You can also taste it around the 27 day mark. I did not like my first kit when the manufacturer said to bottle. This made it easy to wait, and I left it for three months, tasted it again and it had changed enough that I chose to bottle and drink it.

The last note I would make is that bottling can shock a wine. It will taste different for 2-3 weeks than before it was bottled so it is expected to sit for that time to rest before drinking. Some people don't care. They follow the directions and bottle on the date and drink it that night. It all depends on what you hope to make. If you have patience to watch the flavors develop etc. etc.

Good Luck... And have fun. It is pretty hard to REALLY mess things up.

 

[winemaker81]

I don't know anything in answer to the question but I also don't understand what has happened in this thread. Why can't someone give a simple answer to a simple question, or at least go beyond "read the instructions"? My experience with instructions is they often leave much to be desired. I've purchased kits with oak packets where there was no mention of them at all in the instructions. Sorry I had to vent.

Read my post again. I specified that I took the time to locate the vendor's instructions, download them, and read 'em. I answered the question when to use oak:

I found your kit instructions on the NorthernBrewer.com site -- look at days 6-14 -- the oak is aging oak. That means you add it after fermentation is complete, while the wine is aging.

I have no idea what oak is included -- it could be anything. I have no idea where the OP got the idea that it was 3 different types.

Regarding instructions, I often state to read the directions several times, to understand the flow. I also recommend downloading the MoreWine! manuals (see my sig) and skim the white and/or red manuals to understand the process. My response was completely typical.

What I received in return was a snotty reply.

Something you and everyone else needs to keep in mind is that the few dozen folks on this forum, who regularly answer questions, are volunteers. We use our free time to help others. No one -- not you -- not the OP -- not anyone -- is entitled to our time.

If an answer isn't clear, the intelligent thing to do is to take the time to read it, and read it again (basic reading comprehension tactic). Digest it. If it still doesn't make sense, ask for clarification.