Vanilla group cross-over

[winemaker81]

I recently joined a vanilla bean group on Facebook, intending to get in on group purchases. I did not intend much interaction or conversation. How much conversation can I have about vanilla beans, right? Right?

This morning I saw a picture of a small barrel and assumed it was a winemaking group. Nope, vanilla bean group, where someone asked about aging vanilla extract in oak.

Yup -- I had to read it. And I replied, as there was lack of information regarding barrels. So I've cross-pollinated into a new arena. While I know nothing specific about aging vanilla extract in oak, simple barrel handling and care is the same.

Does anyone have any idea what holding solution to use for a vanilla barrel between uses? While I suppose the normal water/acid/K-meta will work, I'd didn't recommend it as I don't know for sure.

I haven't used my last batch of extract yet -- I still have 375 ml from a previous batch. The current batch spent 3+ years macerating, as I had no need for it, so I left it under the sink in my wine room. It's SERIOUSLY strong.

 

[VinesnBines]

How big are the barrels? I would suggest the spirit used for making the extract. I’ve used vodka so why not store the vodka in the barrel until ready to add beans? Spirits don’t oxidize.

 

[winemaker81]

How big are the barrels? I would suggest the spirit used for making the extract. I’ve used vodka so why not store the vodka in the barrel until ready to add beans? Spirits don’t oxidize.

It looks like 1/2 to 1 gallon barrels. Someone tried it, without understanding that evaporation through the wood occurs, and had it go completely dry in a few months.

 

[CortneyD]

@winemaker81 what's your recipe for your extract? Do you use bourbon or vodka and how many beans for a bottle that size? I'm almost out of Eagle Rare myself and it would do quite nicely to reuse the bottle...

 

[winemaker81]

@CortneyD, I pretty much wing it each time. I make large enough batches that it's literally years between them.

IIRC, the original recipe was 1 large bean in 1 cup vodka. I found that to be seriously weak, so I probably tripled it.

The last batch? I had a bag of beans in the cupboard that I had forgotten about -- they were probably 7 years old, and totally dried out -- there was no splitting them, they were literally dried up sticks. I'm guessing I had 20-30 beans. I was willing to risk a bottle of vodka, so I snapped them up in 2" pieces, removed vodka from a 1.75 liter bottle, added the beans, and then topped up. Shake daily for a month and then ignore it.

I discovered I can search my Facebook profile, and I had posted about the beans -- the beans steeped for 4.5 years. I finally got around to straining it in August 2018, roughly 3.5 years ago.

This recipe is from the FAQ of Indri's Vanilla Bean Group:

How many beans do I need to make extract?​

​

The FDA requires 2.64 ounces of vanilla beans/bits per 750 mL (approximately 25 fluid ounces) of alcohol to define a “single fold” vanilla extract. As a group we recommend 2-3 oz of beans per 750 mL or 1 oz of beans for 1 cup of alcohol. A lovely extract can be made with slightly less beans but may take longer to come to a usable strength. Double fold vanilla is made using twice the beans to alcohol ratio and is a very deeply flavored and rich extract.​

​

Given the variable size of beans, using oz beans per volume of vodka makes the most sense. The recommendation in 80 to 100 proof vodka or bourbon. I use vodka.

 

[VinesnBines]

It looks like 1/2 to 1 gallon barrels. Someone tried it, without understanding that evaporation through the wood occurs, and had it go completely dry in a few months.

I guess vanilla production is a sporadic hobby. I make it in vodka and need to get another 750ml batch going. That size lasts me for several years.

 

[winemaker81]

I guess vanilla production is a sporadic hobby.

The vanilla whose picture I posted was started 8 years ago, and I still have some of the previous batch, so "sporadic" seems right.

I'm going to order beans to start a new batch ... which I may not use for a decade ...

 

[VinesnBines]

Amazon has Madagascar vanilla beans for $12 + for ten. I think that is a good deal if you buy from Jeff.

 

[winemaker81]

The group price is $9/oz, which is as good or better, depending on bean size -- which varies a lot.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Wow. Theres a plant nursery just down the road that sells vanilla bean orchids. I might have to go buy one now.

 

[sour_grapes]

Wow. Theres a plant nursery just down the road that sells vanilla bean orchids. I might have to go buy one now.

The cultivation of vanilla beans is a surprisingly complex endeavor. Vanilla is native to Mexico. There is a species of bees there (Melipona) that pollinates the flowers; the flowers then fruit to produce pods, aka vanilla beans. (The pods are the fruit of the orchid; vanilla is the only orchid, out of 35,000 species, that produces fruit.)

Vanilla orchids were exported from Mexico by the French to Reunion Island and Madagascar. Its vines grew well there; however, the pollinating bees were absent, so no vanilla beans occurred. After ~100 years, a 12-year-old child (Edmond Albius), who was a slave of an amateur botanist, discovered how to artificially pollinate the orchid flowers. The vanilla plant, like many orchids, has hermaphroditic flowers, containing the male (anther) and female (stigma) organs. (In what I am sure is a coincidence, the word "orchid" descends from the Greek word orchis, meaning “testicle,” because of the shape of the orchid’s roots, while the word "vanilla" stems from the Latin word ******, owing to the sheath-like shape of the pods.) Interfering with self-pollination is a membrane (called a rostellum) that separates the anther and stigma. The Melipona bee evidently lifts up this membrane while feeding on the blossom. Albius discovered that he could instead use a bamboo splinter to lift up the rostellum and pollinate the plant. (This had been discovered previously by a Belgian botanist, Charles Morren, but his discovery did not spread.)

Even knowing how to do this, raising vanilla beans is difficult. The buds of the orchid take six weeks to mature and flower, but the blooms last only a day! They wilt in the afternoon and fall off by nightfall, so you have to watch and perform your pollination on that day. Then, the pods take 8 to 9 months to mature. You have to tend them, then harvest at the correct moment (when they are ripe, but before they split open to spill their seeds).

At this point, your work is far from over. You must then follow a lengthy curing/fermentation process. The pods must be killed, (placed in hot water to stop vegetative growth); sweated (held in hot, moist conditions at 120 to 150F for seven to ten days); dried (kept in hot, dry conditions for three to four weeks); and conditioned (held in closed containers with many other pods for five to six months). After all of that, the cured pods contain just over 2% vanillin compound.

Are you sure you still want to buy that orchid?

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Yup. Sounds like a nightmare now.

(In what I am sure is a coincidence, the word "orchid" descends from the Greek word orchis, meaning “testicle,” because of the shape of the orchid’s roots, while the word "vanilla" stems from the Latin word ******, owing to the sheath-like shape of the pods.)
Me: I have testicles. I’ve seen ******s. I might be able to replicate this flower *** thing.

Even knowing how to do this, raising vanilla beans is difficult. the pods take 8 to 9 months to mature. You have to tend them, then harvest at the correct moment (when they are ripe, but before they split open to spill their seeds). Me: Sounds like having a baby (9 months). Followed by 18 to 20 years of hard work raising the buggers

The pods must be (held in hot, moist conditions at 120 to 150F for seven to ten days); dried (kept in hot, dry conditions for three to four weeks); Me: Ilive in Florida, hot and dry sounds about right (until summer when it’s hotter and incredibly humid) and conditioned (held in closed containers with many other pods for five to six months). (Sounds like orchid COVID lockdown) After all of that, the cured pods contain just over 2% vanillin compound Are you sure you still want to buy that orchid? Me: Probably not. But now I know how to do it. Great info !!!.

Me: I’m gonna make wine !
My Wife: You have to have lots of expensive equipment and you have to stir it every day, and it has to be clean, and you have to keep it at the right temperature, and you need to check the SG, and you have to be patient, very patient, I know you aren’t. Are you sure you want to make wine ?

good points. I retired though, and I love gardening. My daughter has an orchid grove in her lanai. It might be “fun” to try.

it’s probably way cheaper to buy beans online than it would be to grow them, you would probably need several plants too. I might buy a Lychee tree instead.

 

[CortneyD]

@FlamingoEmporium I think that Lychee tree sounds a lot more fun and a lot less of a PITA!

BTW- there's a great book out there called "The Drunken Botanist" by Amy Stewart that might appeal to this crowd! There is a whole section on cultivating vanilla beans. And the rest of it is a fascinating romp through the plants that help people across generations and continents make booze. (PS: The audiobook version is narrated by someone who I can only imagine is doing her Very Best Moira Rose impression.)

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

The same place sells lychee trees AND orchids. hmmm, when does the pension check arrive ?

 

[winemaker81]

Yup. Sounds like a nightmare now.

I had a co-worker that described every work problem as a nightmare. I corrected him -- "You get to wake up from a nightmare. This will still be here tomorrow ..." -- in a low, sinister voice.

 

[CortneyD]

The same place sells lychee trees AND orchids. hmmm, when does the pension check arrive ?

That nursery sounds AMAZING. I am so envious!

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

That nursery sounds AMAZING. I am so envious!

This is just one. There was another that might be out of business. Not sure.

 

[CortneyD]

@FlamingoEmporium DAMN YOU! I've got more snow coming this weekend!