Vessel for secondary

[jcaudill]

Hello,

This is my first time making wine (although I have quite a bit of experience making beer). Reading through the RJS instructions, they have you transferring at around 5 brix to a secondary carboy, and then about 6 days later for clearing and conditioning to another tertiary carboy. I've been fermenting in a 60l Speidel which has worked fine. My problem is I only have one other 6 gallon PET carboy on hand. So I've been looking into buying another. I don't want glass. I'd prefer something ported to transfer via gravity. I don't have an autosiphon and would prefer not to purchase one. I was hoping to just pickup another Better Bottle 6 gallon with a port but it's a challenge to find those right now.

So my question is: if I purchased a 30L Speidel for secondary, this will have a considerable amount of headspace (around 7L). The instructions online say you need to top up in the secondary (even though there is still some fermentation going on). Since it's in the secondary for a relatively short amount of time, can I get away away with that? It seems like everything I'm reading says you really only need to top up one fermentation is completely done and you've added Metabisulphite which would happen in my current 6 gallon carboy where topping off is no issue.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cpfan]

A lot of people transfer from the carboy back into the primary, add the additives and degas, clean the carboy, and return to the carboy. Yes it means a double transfer but you don't have to buy a second carboy. Also degassing is probably easier in a primary.

Steve

 

[heatherd]

Hello,

This is my first time making wine (although I have quite a bit of experience making beer). Reading through the RJS instructions, they have you transferring at around 5 brix to a secondary carboy, and then about 6 days later for clearing and conditioning to another tertiary carboy. I've been fermenting in a 60l Speidel which has worked fine. My problem is I only have one other 6 gallon PET carboy on hand. So I've been looking into buying another. I don't want glass. I'd prefer something ported to transfer via gravity. I don't have an autosiphon and would prefer not to purchase one. I was hoping to just pickup another Better Bottle 6 gallon with a port but it's a challenge to find those right now.

So my question is: if I purchased a 30L Speidel for secondary, this will have a considerable amount of headspace (around 7L). The instructions online say you need to top up in the secondary (even though there is still some fermentation going on). Since it's in the secondary for a relatively short amount of time, can I get away away with that? It seems like everything I'm reading says you really only need to top up one fermentation is completely done and you've added Metabisulphite which would happen in my current 6 gallon carboy where topping off is no issue.

Thanks in advance.

The problem with ported carboys in winemaking is that the sediment is on the bottom layer and the clear stuff you want is on top. I strongly recommend getting an autosiphon for that reason. With the siphon and racking cane you can siphon off all the clear wine and leave behind the sediment in the bottom.

When I had one carboy and one primary, I used my autosiphon to rack into primary. Then I washed the carboy and racked back into it.

Extra headspace is desirable in primary. If you rack to secondary and the wine is still fermenting, some headspace is good, in case of foaming. Once the wine has finished fermenting, it needs to be topped up.

You can top up with a similar commercial wine. I look for things that are inexpensive but the same varietal. I typically get a few bottles so that I can top up at each racking.

Note that if you are making a red, you will get the best finished product if you let it bulk-age in a carboy. To do that, you'll leave it in the carboy for as long as you can, a year is an ideal time frame. You should add 1/4 teaspoon of potassium metabisulfite every three months. Then you'll rack again to primary just before bottling.

For a white, you can age less, but 3-6 months is good.

Aging was tough for my first few batches because I didn't have anything in my cellar to drink, but maybe since you make beer you already have something else to drink in the meantime.

 

[jcaudill]

The problem with ported carboys in winemaking is that the sediment is on the bottom layer and the clear stuff you want is on top. I strongly recommend getting an autosiphon for that reason. With the siphon and racking cane you can siphon off all the clear wine and leave behind the sediment in the bottom.

When I had one carboy and one primary, I used my autosiphon to rack into primary. Then I washed the carboy and racked back into it.

Extra headspace is desirable in primary. If you rack to secondary and the wine is still fermenting, some headspace is good, in case of foaming. Once the wine has finished fermenting, it needs to be topped up.

You can top up with a similar commercial wine. I look for things that are inexpensive but the same varietal. I typically get a few bottles so that I can top up at each racking.

Note that if you are making a red, you will get the best finished product if you let it bulk-age in a carboy. To do that, you'll leave it in the carboy for as long as you can, a year is an ideal time frame. You should add 1/4 teaspoon of potassium metabisulfite every three months. Then you'll rack again to primary just before bottling.

For a white, you can age less, but 3-6 months is good.

Aging was tough for my first few batches because I didn't have anything in my cellar to drink, but maybe since you make beer you already have something else to drink in the meantime.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

At least with my ported Better Bottle have a pickup tube so hopefully I'm only pulling the clear stuff above the settled stuff.

I went ahead and drilled my non-ported Better Bottle yesterday and stuck a racking assembly in it. I think this is going to solve the problem. That'll give me the 60L Speidel, and 2 carboys to move around to then I don't have to worry about double-cleaning and sanitizing the 60L which for obvious reasons is a serious PIA. I don't think I'll be making wine all that often so this should serve my purpose.

The RJ's instructions has the wine in the second racking for about 30 days. Then provided it's clear you bottle it off and if it's not you just continue to leave it until it is. I don't really have a problem per say leaving the wine in a carboy that long for conditioning. My only challenging is finding a good cool place to leave it that long. What's the downside of bottle at say that 45 day mark (into the process including fermentation) and letting it condition from there (provided it's cleared).

Thanks for the help!

 

[heatherd]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

At least with my ported Better Bottle have a pickup tube so hopefully I'm only pulling the clear stuff above the settled stuff.

I went ahead and drilled my non-ported Better Bottle yesterday and stuck a racking assembly in it. I think this is going to solve the problem. That'll give me the 60L Speidel, and 2 carboys to move around to then I don't have to worry about double-cleaning and sanitizing the 60L which for obvious reasons is a serious PIA. I don't think I'll be making wine all that often so this should serve my purpose.

The RJ's instructions has the wine in the second racking for about 30 days. Then provided it's clear you bottle it off and if it's not you just continue to leave it until it is. I don't really have a problem per say leaving the wine in a carboy that long for conditioning. My only challenging is finding a good cool place to leave it that long. What's the downside of bottle at say that 45 day mark (into the process including fermentation) and letting it condition from there (provided it's cleared).

Thanks for the help!

I find that leaving the wine in the carboy allows it to do a few things:
-Degas fully, which is one of those wine faults that won't resolve in the bottle
-Allow me to taste the wine and adjust things like oak and tannins to my liking
-Clear fully without chemicals
-Drop sediment that won't end up in my bottles
-Start the aging process