Wanted To Post About My Mystery Grape!

[CK55]

O

Is this documented in writing? Or just oral/family history?

Oral, daughter of the gentleman who planted them originally is still alive she is my great grandmother and she is 99 and told me what he told her. So it's fairly concrete what I know.

 

[CK55]

I would also lean toward Zinfandel at the moment without more info. But would not hang my hat on that guess (because it is just a guess -- would like more verified info on the claimed source of the cuttings). By the way, the origin of Zinfandel is now considered to be the Croatia grape "Crljenak Kaštelanski"

But in the end, the DNA should solve it.

Yeah, I could even get you the location of the original homestead where they came from. But basically we know the origin for the cutitngs. Mike had told me that the leaves didn't match zinfandel. I'm going crazy waiting on Davis lol. I hope they hurry up.

 

[CK55]

Zinfandel
Grenache
Petit sirah
Peloursin
Cabernet franc
Cabernet Sauvignon
Merlot
Syrah
Alicante Bouschet
Grand noir
Cinsault
Carignane
Mission
Criolla mediane??
Abouriou

List of what Mike ruled out visually taking a look at the vines and leaves and cluster. keep in mind that it can still be one of these, they are just what he told me that hes faily confident it isnt.

 

[Zintrigue]

Well in that case, let me be the first to claim tempranillo, based on leaf shape alone. /shrug

 

[CK55]

Well in that case, let me be the first to claim tempranillo, based on leaf shape alone. /shrug

Again thats just his opinion and he does know his vines fairly well, he told me that the main indication for not being zinfandel or primitivo was that the leaves are not even close to being the shape necessary. He said that the cluster looks like zin but the leaves do not.

It very well could be Tempranillo, would make a lot of sense as to why its thriving in the soil that it is in. Which is not very high quality soil being sandy. And Tempranillo does grow well in sandy soils. The vine tends to like to just grow as a big bush as well. Even when you trellis is it doesnt want to grow on anything it just grows wherever it wants.

 

[Venatorscribe]

I am enjoying this mystery. Keep the feed coming. Also photo log for us the grapes as they ripen. Cheers

 

[CK55]

I am enjoying this mystery. Keep the feed coming. Also photo log for us the grapes as they ripen. Cheers

They are still small and green but are growing fast, so i will post pictures as they start to develop color. i am really excited for Davis to call me up and let me know what the heck they are. Its a mystery as the family Is Italian but they had a preference towards french grapes. So im really betting my money on it being probably a small obscure french grape that could be very regional or it could even be like Carménère where it was labelled extinct but could be that i have the last of it i dont know. Because a lot of grapes got wiped out just a decade or so after these were planted originally And it did survive phylloxera in Europe and here. So i am more intrigued.

 

[Masbustelo]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess...perhaps... St. Jeannet?

 

[CK55]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess...perhaps... St. Jeannet?

I have to look that up

 

[balatonwine]

These vines are original rootstock. No grafts and probably not phylloxera resistant just being in sand has protected them.

Yes, phylloxera does not like sand. And many vinifera vines in otherwise phylloxera infested areas can be grown on their own roots in sandy soils because the sand does hinder phylloxera.

For anyone interested, some terse information about a variety of grape vines and varietals grown in sandy soils as a protective measure against phylloxera can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera

But if the vine has true phylloxera resistance, then it is probably a hybrid as no vinifera really has innate phylloxera resistence.

 

[balatonwine]

He said that the cluster looks like zin but the leaves do not.

I agree. But this is a neglected vine. And that may, just might, have affected leaf morphology.

 

[CK55]

Yes, phylloxera does not like sand. And many vinifera vines in otherwise phylloxera infested areas can be grown on their own roots in sandy soils because the sand does hinder phylloxera.

For anyone interested, some terse information about a variety of grape vines and varietals grown in sandy soils as a protective measure against phylloxera can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera

But if the vine has true phylloxera resistance, then it is probably a hybrid as no vinifera really has innate phylloxera resistence.

I doubt its a hybrid as most vines prior to about 1880 were natural crosses that happened in nature. It wasnt really untill later that you had a lot of artificial human caused crosses.

But you never know. I do know that it came from europe.

 

[CK55]

Although all the new vines planted right next to it are Resistant to phylloxera and drought and whatnot as i selected rootstocks that were intentionally resistant.

But i really would have been fine with any rootstock.

 

[CK55]

Here's 3 more pics because I could post them and because it might help the vines are really coming back to life.

https://imgur.com/a/4GzhJ3Y

 

[Zintrigue]

I wish UCDavis would hurry up, this one's a cliffhanger.

 

[CK55]

I wish UCDavis would hurry up, this one's a cliffhanger.

I am losing sleep over it lol. I just want to finally solve the mystery. So I can make wine out of it and label it. Otherwise I'm just going to put a big fricking ? On the label.

 

[cmason1957]

That may well be what you end up doing after UCDavis gets done. I have a friend who has an equivalent mystery grape on his property. Genetic testing left them with nothing in particular, they mashed their names together and call it Torenzel. It makes a wonderful white wine, that you certainly can't get anywhere else.

 

[CK55]

That may well be what you end up doing after UCDavis gets done. I have a friend who has an equivalent mystery grape on his property. Genetic testing left them with nothing in particular, they mashed their names together and call it Torenzel. It makes a wonderful white wine, that you certainly can't get anywhere else.

Well if thats how it will be then thats how it will be. But im pretty sure its going to come back as something. But i could be wrong my gut feeling is just that its going to come back as something. I hope to get the results before the weekend hits or im going to be really upset. Im tired of waiting its been over 12 days.

 

[Venatorscribe]

I am losing sleep over it lol. I just want to finally solve the mystery. So I can make wine out of it and label it. Otherwise I'm just going to put a big fricking ? On the label.

Understandable. The rest of us following this story are just as intrigued. Let’s hope it is rare and exotic or an interesting mutant

 

[CK55]

Understandable. The rest of us following this story are just as intrigued. Let’s hope it is rare and exotic or an interesting mutant

I do think it stands a good chance of it because it was deff in the US before phylloxera hit France and Europe so the chances of it being something are slightly higher.