WE LE18 Barbaresco-Stuff On Surface

[Cellar Vader]

I just removed the lid after the 6th week of an EM on this kit. 2 weeks ago it smelled wonderful, and as young as it is, it tasted great. But tonight, there is not only a strong “alcoholy” smell (not really that nail polish remover smell I’ve read about) but there are these little “globule” shaped things on the surface. Not a film, and the largest is maybe a millimeter in size. See attached pic.
Does anyone know what this might be? The wine has no off-flavor, and after the lid being off for only a minute, that smell had greatly reduced. I will say that I’m a fanatic when it comes to sanitation. So...?

 

[crushday]

Did you add sorbate? I had something similar happen to a white wine after adding the sorbate.

 

[Cellar Vader]

No, this is all before any stabilizing & clearing, etc. (I don’t plan to sorbate this anyway.) I did, however, add 2 teaspoons of Fermax at day 2 due to an off odor of sulphur early on. I thought “maybe” this stuff is the residual powder that didn't dissolve completely.

 

[joeswine]

Next to.e you add any chems to the mix try this,take 2 cups of the base add the chems no matter what type and warm them up in the base on the stove top then once desolve puir it back in to the mix. Done.

 

[Cellar Vader]

Next to.e you add any chems to the mix try this,take 2 cups of the base add the chems no matter what type and warm them up in the base on the stove top then once desolve puir it back in to the mix. Done.

Thanks Joe. By “chems” does this apply to nutrients, etc? I did not pre-dissolve my Fermax, but I did stir vigorously with my drill attachment.

 

[salcoco]

just rack it off verify ph and you so2 content is correct

 

[Cellar Vader]

just rack it off verify ph and you so2 content is correct

Thx. ph is at 3.62 right now. I don't have a means by which to test the SO2, but I added 1/4 tsp at end of ferm since I aerated it to help rid it of the sulphur smell (which worked!)
A little more reading points to the possibility of yeast mycoderma. Sounds savable if caught in time. Based on the small amount on the surface, I think I can nip this in the bud, if that in fact is what it is. I'm gonna rack it tonight, degas, and then filter with a 5-micron whole-house filter.
Any other input from any and all would be greatly appreciated!

 

[joeswine]

Yes,just warm them through,warm to the touch, done.

 

[motherofgallons]

I made this kit, it just came out of an 8 week EM this past week. I didn't have anything like that in mine. I did use both 212 and 1118, and used FermK to fend off the beginnings of sulphur with great effect a few days after pitch. Would Ferm K really stay undissolved like that for so long? I did slosh the bucket from time to time to wet the skins but mostly left it alone without opening too much. I am wondering, after googling, if it is the mycoderma as you suggested. I don't really have much advice to offer but just wanted to offer my experience with this kit. Good luck! Mine is now bulk aging with 30g extra oak on top of what was included for something like 6-12 months before bottling.

 

[Cellar Vader]

I made this kit, it just came out of an 8 week EM this past week. I didn't have anything like that in mine. I did use both 212 and 1118, and used FermK to fend off the beginnings of sulphur with great effect a few days after pitch. Would Ferm K really stay undissolved like that for so long? I did slosh the bucket from time to time to wet the skins but mostly left it alone without opening too much. I am wondering, after googling, if it is the mycoderma as you suggested. I don't really have much advice to offer but just wanted to offer my experience with this kit. Good luck! Mine is now bulk aging with 30g extra oak on top of what was included for something like 6-12 months before bottling.

Well I have no doubt that the reason I have this problem is the aeration I performed to rid the sulpher smell early-on. I did it on 2 occasions, and hoped to counter balance that afterwards by adding 2 g. of Kmeta. I racked it last night into a 6-gallon carboy that I had placed 3 oz. of dry ice chips. That gave me a good buffer of CO2, and then for good measure, I added 1 small chip at the very top and then sealed it under an air-lock. After a week, I plan to filter it to get any risidual "stuff" that I'm sure came across in my racking. I left all the visible stuff behind, but it's in the must for sure. Added 2 more grams of Kmeta to help. I do like the challenge! Fingers crossed!

 

[motherofgallons]

Well I have no doubt that the reason I have this problem is the aeration I performed to rid the sulpher smell early-on. I did it on 2 occasions, and hoped to counter balance that afterwards by adding 2 g. of Kmeta. I racked it last night into a 6-gallon carboy that I had placed 3 oz. of dry ice chips. That gave me a good buffer of CO2, and then for good measure, I added 1 small chip at the very top and then sealed it under an air-lock. After a week, I plan to filter it to get any risidual "stuff" that I'm sure came across in my racking. I left all the visible stuff behind, but it's in the must for sure. Added 2 more grams of Kmeta to help. I do like the challenge! Fingers crossed!

As I recall, we did a lot of aerating for the first week or so. I should have made notes on that but didn't, but you reminded me. This was my first kit so I was drawing on my mead experience and shaking the bucket 10-15 minutes at a time once a day. After that though, I think I only opened the airtight bucket 2 or maybe 3 times in 8 weeks. At racking it was really clear, dark, and clean looking.

 

[Cellar Vader]

As I recall, we did a lot of aerating for the first week or so. I should have made notes on that but didn't, but you reminded me. This was my first kit so I was drawing on my mead experience and shaking the bucket 10-15 minutes at a time once a day. After that though, I think I only opened the airtight bucket 2 or maybe 3 times in 8 weeks. At racking it was really clear, dark, and clean looking.

Sounds like you had a solid plan with which to work. I only opened mine every 2 weeks in order to taste it, and relied on the natural emission of CO2 to help blanket the must. It still had a positive pressure inside up til the other day, but I believe the damage had been done. I, too, had planned on an 8-week EM, but this issue cut that short. I'm not concerned about that though. I will report back via this thread on the results of my corrective measures. Thx for your input "mother!"

 

[motherofgallons]

Looking forward to comparing notes! I've already learned from this one. Going forward I'll skip the bentonite completely (I'm actually afraid that it did strip some flavor out as I was pretty underwhelmed when I tasted it), and I will also skip the 1118 in favor of better yeasts like 212 or bm4x4 which I will also rehydrate with Go Ferm instead of direct pitching. I was nervous and followed the kit directions fairly closely but I won't do that anymore. I hope it improves with age and oak as I paid full price for it! I'm about to go pick elderberries as they're ripe and all over the place, I'm thinking of dehydrating some and adding in a bag to the carboy.

 

[Cellar Vader]

@motherofgallons I felt the same way about following the kit instructions for this one, as I didn't want to take any chances. However, I have learned from all my previous kits that the bentonite sure does assist in leaving behind a ton of lees, so I lost a decent amount of wine when I used it. I had to top-up last night with 2 BOTTLES of Italian red to get it to within 2" of the bung! Started with a full 23 L before I added the skins too! Yikes!
Anyway, I am done with the 212 yeast. BM4x4 seems to be the popular favorite for Italian Reds, so if I can make this kit again I'll make those 2 changes for sure.
"To be continued."

 

[motherofgallons]

@motherofgallons I felt the same way about following the kit instructions for this one, as I didn't want to take any chances. However, I have learned from all my previous kits that the bentonite sure does assist in leaving behind a ton of lees, so I lost a decent amount of wine when I used it. I had to top-up last night with 2 BOTTLES of Italian red to get it to within 2" of the bung! Started with a full 23 L before I added the skins too! Yikes!
Anyway, I am done with the 212 yeast. BM4x4 seems to be the popular favorite for Italian Reds, so if I can make this kit again I'll make those 2 changes for sure.
"To be continued."

Food for thought. I was impressed with how clear it was even without any other additives. I put the lees in a glass Fido jar to cold crash in the fridge and it looks like I have another 500 ml or so. It's also in a 23L carboy and not up to the neck either, but maybe after adding the lees share I can split a bottle with the carboy (the manufacturer says that in fact 23.3L fills it to the base of the neck). I didn't get a full carboy with my Luna Bianca either and that still has a good amount of fine lees in for sur lie... it will probably take at least half a bottle or a bit more to top off.

Good tip for the bm4x4, I love the 212 for blueberry/blackberry dragon blood so it won't go to waste.

 

[motherofgallons]

Just added the coldcrashed wine. I didn't measure but I think my estimate of 500ml was pretty accurate. There is still room in the carboy though so I am going to top off to the neck with the cheapest barbaresco i could find. I think it will take about one bottle. I had to add 1.5 bottles to my Luna Bianca in the same size carboy.

 

[Cellar Vader]

Wow! Ok, that does it. No more pouring the lees down the drain. I'd previously read about putting it in the fridge to get more wine, but had yet to try it.
That tip is now definitely on my list. Thx @motherofgallons !

 

[motherofgallons]

I do it with everything! It takes a few days but it's fun to see the layers settle. I use assorted size glass jars, 3L, 2L, and different size pickle and jam jars. I let it settle completely, then do a quick 'n dirty rack by pouring into a smaller jar, nothing fancy. Repeat as necessary. Sanitize and cold crash away, you'll be surprised how much you get.

 

[Cellar Vader]

As a follow-up, last night this smelled just fine, and tasted good (other than that CO2 feel.) I've kept an eye on the surface since I racked this to a carboy for anything to reoccur, and nothing. Hmmmm. I guess I'm good to go.