Welch's concord with the super-sugar method

[wineforfun]

Still 1.030 this A.M. Stirred in some yeast energizer.
Still1.030 this P.M. no activity.
Give it one more day then dump it.
T...

Tony,
What was the SG to start with? Are you sure it was 1.090?
If it was around 1.140-1.150 then it would die off around 1.030.

If it truly was 1.090 to start with, I have no idea why it stalled out. I have never had it do that and I have made quite a bit of this.

Re-reading your one post, it states that you used 12 cans Welchs and 7 cups sugar. This should have given you an SG of much higher than 1.090.

 

[jswordy]

I wish I had seen this Tony post in time. Heat the water. Put it outside in 90 degree heat or put it in the warmest area of your house. However, if you started at 1.150 and went to 1.030, you should have a sweet wine with lots of kick. Exactly what it should be. Success. I hope you did not toss that out. This is not a wine that is supposed to go to dry. The yeast will not survive in that much alcohol! LOL.

But if you just used 7 cups sugar and the concentrate, you might not ever have gotten the SG high enough.

 

[Tony49]

Thanks for checking in gentlemen.
Here's what I did:
12 cans Welches Concord which is just about one gallon of juice.
Made a simple syrup of 3 3/4 lbs of sugar and water to about one gallon.
Added one more gallon of water to make just over three gallons.
Into the primary and one pack of Lalvin RC 212 sprinkled on top.
I have to throw out my initial PH reading as I think it as incorrect.
Activity appeared good.
One week later S.G. was 1.040, good taste.
Next day 7/18 racked to three gallon carboy. Lees were about 3/4 inch.
7/26 checked S.G. at 1.030. Taste sweet, fruity, strong.
Still that way.
Took a bigger taste this A.M. and I think I'm a bit .
Oh! Temp in the closet where the wine is, is presently 79degrees f.
jswordy, I think you may be correct. The second pack of yeast certainly did not survive even with nutrient.
Do you think it might be best to put this back into a carboy and let it age for a while ?

 

[wineforfun]

Thanks for checking in gentlemen.
Here's what I did:
12 cans Welches Concord which is just about one gallon of juice.
Made a simple syrup of 3 3/4 lbs of sugar and water to about one gallon.
Added one more gallon of water to make just over three gallons.
Into the primary and one pack of Lalvin RC 212 sprinkled on top.
I have to throw out my initial PH reading as I think it as incorrect.
Activity appeared good.
One week later PH was 1.040, good taste.
Next day 7/18 racked to three gallon carboy. Lees were about 3/4 inch.
7/26 checked PH at 1.030. Taste sweet, fruity, strong.
Still that way.
Took a bigger taste this A.M. and I think I'm a bit .
Oh! Temp in the closet where the wine is, is presently 79degrees f.
jswordy, I think you may be correct. The second pack of yeast certainly did not survive even with nutrient.
Do you think it might be best to put this back into a carboy and let it age for a while ?

Jim is all over it with keeping it warm. This is the one wine I have to put my "heating pads" on the get it going and keep it going.

Tony, just an FYI, you are using PH in place of SG. Your readings of 1.040, 1.030, etc. are SG readings, not PH.

I am trying to recollect from memory(which is quite scary and unreliable). For 2 gal. I use 8 11.5oz. cans(92oz. of concentrate) and 188oz. water(164oz. to make 2 gal., and an extra 24 oz. for racking and loss of volume due to lees). Here is where I am foggy without reading my notes but I believe I add 4cups, give or take, straight sugar. I usually end up with an SG of.1.140-1.145.

According to your above numbers, you should have had adequate sugar to push the SG high enough. So without having been there, I would again concur with Jim and hit it with some heat and see if that helps. If it doesn't get going, I have to believe you have used up all the yeast and are good to go. Don't dump it, just follow the rest of the directions, ie: clear it, kmeta, etc. and bottle it. Try it in a month then and see what you think. Then you can make your decision.

I just re-read your post and saw where you state it is strong. I am guessing it is done and you have succeeded. I would move forward.

 

[Tony49]

Yes S.G.-not P.H. Sorry, I went back and edited the post.
Got P.H. on the brain lately as I just ordered a P.H. meter. Maybe it will help my clumsy wine making.
Really appreciate you guys coming in and helping with this.
Glad you all (y'all now that I live in South Carolina) stepped in when you did.
Moving forward.
Tony...

 

[Bartman]

In the perfect super sugar method world, you pick a yeast that will give up the goat and leave enough sweetness to mimic fermenting dry, adding Kmeta and sorbate and backsweeting.

I know that Welch's wine isn't supposed to taste great, but is it really expected that the bouquet will have hints of "goat"?

 

[jswordy]

I know that Welch's wine isn't supposed to taste great, but is it really expected that the bouquet will have hints of "goat"?

It tastes great to me. Have you made any? Many who poo-poo it have not. Others have made poor versions, then blame the wine.

 

[jswordy]

Tony, like BJ says, move forward. You will likely now have to put your wine into the carboy for a month to let all that extra junk you added settle out. Do not bottle a cloudy wine! Wait until it clears. You can put it in a fridge or a real cold place to help aid that process, if available. Setting it very near an AC vent helps sometimes. By golly, sorry for the last efforts that were not needed, I wish I had checked in here sooner, but if it tastes good and kicks you back a bit, it is good!

 

[Bartman]

No, I haven't tried it. I was just joshing around with the mis-spelling. It must have some redeeming value for the attention it gets around here!

 

[Tony49]

Thanks js.
Appreciate your advice.
Going to start another three gallon with Welches Concord and Old Orchard White Grape, which was the only white I could find locally.
Twice as much white to red should give a nice blush.
Yeast suggestions?

 

[JimmyT]

Just had a batch stop at 1.040. Is it worth it to re pitch some yeast after a starter or just let it roll being even sweeter than my last batch? Started at 1.146. Last batch was the same and ended at 1.034 and was almost too sweet but really good.

 

[wineforfun]

Just had a batch stop at 1.040. Is it worth it to re pitch some yeast after a starter or just let it roll being even sweeter than my last batch? Started at 1.146. Last batch was the same and ended at 1.034 and was almost too sweet but really good.

Are you using RC-212?
If so, have you been keeping it warm? I know for me, I have to put my heating pads on it to get it going and keep it going. The only yeast I have had to do that with.

 

[Tony49]

Mine also finished on the sweet side, which is what I think its supposed to do.
Wonder how you could un-sweeten it and still retain the great flavor.

 

[JimmyT]

Are you using RC-212?

If so, have you been keeping it warm? I know for me, I have to put my heating pads on it to get it going and keep it going. The only yeast I have had to do that with.

Yes I'm using the RC-212, it's been between 75-81 the entire process. I looked through my notes on my last batch and that was between 70-75. Along the timeline this batch was pretty much 5 degrees higher all the way through when comparing the two batches.
I was thinking its only .006 higher than the last batch but didn't really want it sweeter than last batch. If I would redo a RC-212 by making a starter do you think it would take off since the others crapped out or should I consider using EC-1118 and have it go a lot lower on the sweetness but have a lot higher abv. I might just take a taste tonight and if it's not much sweeter than I'll just roll with it.

 

[JimmyT]

Mine also finished on the sweet side, which is what I think its supposed to do.
Wonder how you could un-sweeten it and still retain the great flavor.

The only way I know of un-sweetening is to ferment the sugar out!!!!

 

[wineforfun]

Mine also finished on the sweet side, which is what I think its supposed to do.
Wonder how you could un-sweeten it and still retain the great flavor.

The only way at this time would be to dilute with water which would obviously dilute the flavor.

The only way initially is to lower your SG to say around 1.135-1.140 and that will end up with a lower residual sugar.

 

[wineforfun]

Yes I'm using the RC-212, it's been between 75-81 the entire process. I looked through my notes on my last batch and that was between 70-75. Along the timeline this batch was pretty much 5 degrees higher all the way through when comparing the two batches.
I was thinking its only .006 higher than the last batch but didn't really want it sweeter than last batch. If I would redo a RC-212 by making a starter do you think it would take off since the others crapped out or should I consider using EC-1118 and have it go a lot lower on the sweetness but have a lot higher abv. I might just take a taste tonight and if it's not much sweeter than I'll just roll with it.

You got me there. Maybe @jswordy will see this and chime in. I notice some of mine finish sweeter than others. I think it may just be the nature of the beast since we really aren't controlling the yeast and just letting it die off on it's own.

One thing I have done is like I mentioned in my other post. I use an initial SG of 1.135-1.140 which results in a lower FG.

 

[jswordy]

Wow, we are getting complex on this, measuring temps and worrying over FG deviations.

I just hit the SG, ferment and then drink mine, so I can't help much. It has been consistent in taste and sweetness for me. Please add to the knowledge by reporting on what you do and how it turns out. We can never have too much information.

 

[wineforfun]

Wow, we are getting complex on this, measuring temps and worrying over FG deviations.

Seriously? Have you forgot where you come from? We are talking about one of the most complex, sophisticated wines ever created...............Welch's.

While some will never understand or be able to experience and appreciate the underlying notes and tones that are developed in Welch's, others will constantly strive to unlock this mystery of what makes it so great.

There are those that are happy with "throwing together a kit" or "trying a new bottle from the store" and then there are US, those that are constantly seeking the holy grail of wine.............Welch's, and what truly makes it so great.

 

[Tony49]

[quoteThe only way at this time would be to dilute with water which would obviously dilute the flavor.
][/quote]
Heavens no. Better to mix in a gallon of Paisano.
T...