What is this thing?

[DerrickPeavy]

I have made a cabernet from fresh crush. Just now put it into kegs with nitro. Couple of problems. First, at every racking stage, I have had a film on top. It's pink. The first time I saw it, I assumed it was bacteria. So when I racked the first time, I made sure that it stayed in the fermenter (as much as possible). But with every stage, it comes back, but the clumps are larger, there isn't more, it's just more clumpy. It always floats on top, even in a glass. It even came back after SO2 additions and after 10 days of dualfine, during which I had nitrogen on it as well. I am just wondering what to do to fix it. I've filtered as much as I can, and now it's in keg under 10psi of nitrogen.

 

[franc1969]

I don’t know - but i had similar on my zinfandel. I kept it very topped up and wiped away the film.

 

[Rice_Guy]

From the look of it, the pink is an artifact,,, or grape pigment which has infiltrated a microbial mass.
SO2 is a normal control, as well as eliminating the oxygen in the head space. Do you have a pH reading? low pH/ 3.5 reduces micro issues.

oh welcome to wine making talk

 

[DerrickPeavy]

So I could add some potassium metabisulfite? What strips do you use to measure PH? I thought I had measured that but it's not in my notes and I don't think I have any strips. I'm not panicked, I think it will be fine, but I do need to fix it this week. It's also topped off with nitro. I've kept the line on it all night at 10 psi.

 

[Rice_Guy]

As a general rule we don’t add more than 50 ppm of SO2 , you can ignore the rule while letting the wine age but will taste the sulphur if you run over 100 ppm on bottled wine.
pH is best measured with a pH meter since the red pigments hide the color change in the paper strips. I ran pH paper when I started wines/ had not budgeted a pH meter, ,,, you will get a better color reading if you dilute the wine 1:1 or even 1:4 with distilled water. (do not use tap water)

So I could add some potassium metabisulfite? What strips do you use to measure PH? I thought I had measured that but it's not in my notes and I don't think I have any strips. I'm not panicked, I think it will be fine, but I do need to fix it this week. It's also topped off with nitro. I've kept the line on it all night at 10 psi.

 

[ibglowin]

That definitely looks like Mycoderma to me or "Flowers of Wine". It will definitely destroy your wine if not taken care of. Hit it with a heavy dose of Kmeta and make sure its topped up and stoppered tight. Myco needs air. I usually spray Kmeta solution on top and let it just sit. If it comes back, hit it again, rinse, repeat.

https://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=25

 

[DerrickPeavy]

I can add SO2 today

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Thanks! Is a meter like this accurate enough? "Fermentaholics Digital pH Meter, pH Meter with 0.00-14.00 pH Range Test for Brewing Kombucha, Wine, Beer, Mead, Fermentation pH Tester with ATC" - at Amazon, picture included here.

I can add SO2 today.

As a general rule we don’t add more than 50 ppm of SO2 , you can ignore the rule while letting the wine age but will taste the sulphur if you run over 100 ppm on bottled wine.
pH is best measured with a pH meter since the red pigments hide the color change in the paper strips. I ran pH paper when I started wines/ had not budgeted a pH meter, ,,, you will get a better color reading if you dilute the wine 1:1 or even 1:4 with distilled water. (do not use tap water)

 

[Rice_Guy]

Yes,
Most meters today give 0.01 accuracy which is actually more than we need, the difference I see is that below $50 they may not last very long

Edited NOTE SO2 is more efficient at killing infections as the pH is reduced

 

[DerrickPeavy]

OK. Now you have me worried. From what I read, the wine is spoiled. But some kmeta / SO2 can save it? How do I know if it has already spoiled the wine by converting the alcohol to acetic acid and water? This batch has been in an oak barrel for 7 months, topped off with CO2, but of course O2 could still seep in. So if it is flowers of wine (which, BTW is really hard to find picture of and is why I came here), then it's had a lot of time to spoil the wine. I do have a refractometer but I thought it gave innaccurate readings at this stage. Thoughts?

That definitely looks like Mycoderma to me or "Flowers of Wine". It will definitely destroy your wine if not taken care of. Hit it with a heavy dose of Kmeta and make sure its topped up and stoppered tight. Myco needs air. I usually spray Kmeta solution on top and let it just sit. If it comes back, hit it again, rinse, repeat.

https://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=25

 

[ibglowin]

Easy way is to just sample the wine. The end process for Myco is acetic acid (vinegar) so it is very easy to tell if the wine is too far gone. How long has this been out of the barrel? If only a few weeks then you should definitely do a through cleaning of that barrel with a mixture of KMETA/CITRIC Acid.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

October 7, 2020
picked up 10 gallons (apx) of must at vineyard
total volume with skins appears to be 9.5 gallons


October 8, 2020

Prior to pitching yeast from vineyard

Hydrometer readings: did not cool to 68. Was apx 75 to 80.
1.080 gravity
10.75% potential alcohol
19.25 balling

Adjusted for temp
1.081 gravity
10.75% potential alcohol
20 balling

Refractometer reading:
18.5 brix


October 14

Refractometer reading:
6 to 7 brix

Hydrometer
1.0 balling



October 17

Prior to rack and press

Hydrometer
0.25 balling



October 21

Racking off gross lees
Added malolactic acid and nutrients and about 5 oz french oak
Wyeast 4007 was malolactic acid, 2 packs
Added opti malo as well (12gram)

Hydrometer
0.25 balling


December 13

There was a film on top (see pic)
Racked off to new tank, added 1 tsp (2 grams) of Potassium Metabisulfite for 5 gallons juice

Tested acidity, but was inconclusive using the strip.
Also, tetrets kit was not conclusive for SO2, so?
Decided to barrel off on the 21st


December 21
New film on top, same as what was in the tank on 12/13
Racked to barrel, added 1 tsp (2 grams) of Potassium Metabisulfite for 5 gallons juice


August 4, 2021
Racked from barrel to tank
New film on top, same as what was in the tank on 12/13
Racked to clarify and added stage one of dualfine


August 5, 2021
Added stage 2 of dualfine


August 15, 2021
New film on top, same as what was in the tank on 12/13. Took pics. Used fine strainer to remove as much as possible
Rack to kegs and added nitrogen


The wine tastes very green, raw oak as well. But it's clear and alcohol seems to be present via smell

 

[ibglowin]

Sounds like the wine is fine still just hit it hard with KMETA and before you put the stopper back on spritz the top with more KMETA and then stopper tight (and make sure you don't have too much headspace).

 

[DerrickPeavy]

It's about 4 gallons total wine I think, I have it split into two, 2.5 gallon kegs. So, fair amount of head space in the little corny. But I can easily fill that with nitrogen. What would you suggest as amount of SO2? More than 50 ppm?

Sounds like the wine is fine still just hit it hard with KMETA and before you put the stopper back on spritz the top with more KMETA and then stopper tight (and make sure you don't have too much headspace).

 

[BarrelMonkey]

What would you suggest as amount of SO2? More than 50 ppm?

For general maintenance I'd try to target 30ppm SO2, but I think 50ppm would be a good place to start given that you have had film growing recently. Some (maybe most) of the SO2 will get taken up immediately. I agree with @ibglowin that in addition to adding SO2 to the bulk wine you might spritz the top with, say a 6% w/v solution of K-meta before purging with N2 and capping the kegs. You have airtight stoppers on the kegs, right?

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Yes, they are the half size corny kegs, air tight with gas in and out valves. And when you say K-meta, you mean Potassium Metabisulfite, right?

For general maintenance I'd try to target 30ppm SO2, but I think 50ppm would be a good place to start given that you have had film growing recently. Some (maybe most) of the SO2 will get taken up immediately. I agree with @ibglowin that in addition to adding SO2 to the bulk wine you might spritz the top with, say a 6% w/v solution of K-meta before purging with N2 and capping the kegs. You have airtight stoppers on the kegs, right?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Yes, they are the half size corny kegs, air tight with gas in and out valves. And when you say K-meta, you mean Potassium Metabisulfite, right?

Yes, Kmeta = KMBS = potassium metabisulfite.

 

[Ajmassa]

welcome to the “wth is growing on top of my wine?” club. Both these threads linked below are good informative discussions regarding your EXACT issue j think.

Correcting Flowers of Wine

Lees Rising to the Surface?

Main takeaways from these discussions:
-Many of us deal with this
-We still have no clue what it is or what causes it, only theories.
-some wines will get it while others under same exact conditions don’t.
-the wine seems unaffected despite the reappearing surface crud
-ph doesn’t seem to be a factor
- I can’t speak on the larger surface area of a tank but my routine in Carboys & demijohns with small necks has been scooping out the crud & wiping clean the sides with rolled up paper towels, heavy handed so2 management, and like @ibglowin said- a confident spritz or two of kmeta sanitizer solution directly into the vessel after Ive cleaned it. And then just keeping your eye on it repeating as necessary. (I use 3tsp kmeta & 1tsp citric in a 32oz spray bottle as my sanitizer)

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Thanks! And yes, it's kind of maddening. Either way, SO2 seems like the next step. So I'll release pressure and add tonight, then seal again and add nitrogen.

Given how the mass sometimes looked like a fungus - the lines, the circles, the webbing, I suspect something like that. But I do think there may be some floating lees. I did press pretty hard on the skins with my wine press. I once spent a week as a cellar hand and saw how hard grapes were squeezed with bladder presses and came out really dry, so I figured I needed to go pretty hard with the home press. But maybe I went too hard. Even after 10 days with Dualfine, there is still sediment when I let a sample sit for a while.

welcome to the “wth is growing on top of my wine?” club. Both these threads linked below are good informative discussions regarding your EXACT issue j think.

Correcting Flowers of Wine

Lees Rising to the Surface?

Main takeaways from these discussions:
-Many of us deal with this
-We still have no clue what it is or what causes it, only theories.
-some wines will get it while others under same exact conditions don’t.
-the wine seems unaffected despite the reappearing surface crud
-ph doesn’t seem to be a factor
- I can’t speak on the larger surface area of a tank but my routine in Carboys & demijohns with small necks has been scooping out the crud & wiping clean the sides with rolled up paper towels, heavy handed so2 management, and like @ibglowin said- a confident spritz or two of kmeta sanitizer solution directly into the vessel after Ive cleaned it. And then just keeping your eye on it repeating as necessary. (I use 3tsp kmeta & 1tsp citric in a 32oz spray bottle as my sanitizer)

 

[DerrickPeavy]

OK, next question (HA! - you thought that was all). I aged in a 5 gallon barrel. I topped off on a regular basis with CO2. I used to brew beer, so I have a lot of stuff I have been able to repurpose.

Instead of using the supplied spout that came with the barrel (see pic), which has an aluminum piece in it, I used a wine stopper with a silicone seal. It was great - no leaking at all! The wine aged in my home office which is usually 68-74 degrees, probably too hot and that's probably why I have the above issue. But what else can you do in Atlanta? It's hot, it's humid.

So, after I rack it off of the barrel, I look at the wine stopper and it's discolored. I used the stopper because I assumed it was stainless steel. It was heavy and so, you know? But it turns out it was chrome plating over... something?

I then let the stopper sit in a PBW solution. So the pic I have here is after that to clean it up, which caused some pitting - just to be clear, the PBW caused the pitting, not the wine, which is very odd.

Here's my question, assuming I can recover form the unknown stuff floating on top of the wine, have I inadvertently poisoned my wine with chromium or some other chrome plating alloy?