What is this thing?

[winemaker81]

@DerrickPeavy, my first thought regarding the fining failing is dissolved CO2, but after ~10 months the wine should be degassed. You're filling the headspace with CO2 -- I have not heard of that being a problem with fining.

At this point I'd add the standard treatment for a wine that won't clear -- pectic enzyme. This is rarely needed with grape wines, but it doesn't hurt.

Yeah, you can go heavier on SO2 during bulk aging, and if you have any type of infection, it's wise to do so. Last December you hit the wine with a quad dose (1 tsp/5 gallons) and that should knock out most things.

SO2 works by binding to contaminants, and gets used up. The more unwanted "stuff" in the wine, the faster the SO2 gets used up. I agree with @Rice_Guy about having too much SO2 at bottling time. I don't do SO2 testing, but it may be worth it for you do to that before bottling, especially if you add another high dose of SO2.

Is this a new barrel? If so, you may have left the wine in it too long, as new smaller barrels impart a LOT of oak character in a very short time. This is likely affecting the flavor.

I am not a fan of filling headspace with gas. Even if added carefully, all gases mix with the air in the headspace to some extent, and you have NO idea what the mix is, so having significant amounts of O2 is a risk. As a barrel evaporates and the space becomes larger, the risk increases.

If you top with wine, you know 100% what's in the barrel. I plan 10% loss over a year for 54 liter barrels, e.g., 16 gallons of wine for a 14.25 gallon barrel. For smaller barrels the percentage loss can be higher, and this is affected by temperature and humidity.

Regarding the chrome fixture, I do not have an answer, other than knowing heavy metals in wine are poisonous. I found this on WebMD, which provides a minimal background.

Heavy Metals Found in Wine (webmd.com)

Do a lot more research, not only for the wine but for any residue left in the barrel. I'm a big fan of doing what can be done to save a wine, but if there is a possibility it is poisoned, dump it!

In the future, I suggest using only equipment marketed specifically for winemaking. Wine is acidic and equipment suitable for beer may not be suitable for wine.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Thank you! I got mixed messages on the aging in barrel from different people. Another home winemaker (from MoreWinemaking.com) said that he left his in barrel for a long time (months) without issue. Other places and people said no, only a month or two. It was a new barrel. The flavor is off at this point, hard to know if it's just the over oaking or what. But definitely a wood taste. Hoping that aging will mellow that.

As for infection, I use star san religiously and generously. At every stage, even on fittings and often dip my hands in a solution as well. And I used two rounds of SO2 in ample amounts as you noted.

I am not opposed to throwing it out if I have to. It's my second attempt from grapes. I figure there is a learning and mistake curve. I'm also troubled by what appears to be just over 10% ABV. Would have expected 12 or higher.

I am waiting on a PH meter right now before doing anything.

And I've asked my local wine supply store (we actually have that close by) for pectic enzyme if they have it.

Any advice on how to affordably test for SO2 at this point? The tetrits aren't that effective for red from what I can see.

I've had the wine under nitrogen now for two days in the 2/5 gallon corny kegs. Curious to see if the stuff comes back on top. I did a sample pour last night to check SG and it looks like the stuff that was floating on top may have been pushed to the bottom due to pressure as it came out when I tapped it and that means it has to be at the bottom of the keg.

My main concern right now is any interaction with the chrome. That has me worried. And mad. I mean, it is a wine stopper. So I made the dumb assumption that it would be safe. Other than that, all material is stainless. The fermenting tank and carboys are stainless and made for wine and beers.

Any advice on testing for metals (affordably)?

@DerrickPeavy, my first thought regarding the fining failing is dissolved CO2, but after ~10 months the wine should be degassed. You're filling the headspace with CO2 -- I have not heard of that being a problem with fining.

At this point I'd add the standard treatment for a wine that won't clear -- pectic enzyme. This is rarely needed with grape wines, but it doesn't hurt.

Yeah, you can go heavier on SO2 during bulk aging, and if you have any type of infection, it's wise to do so. Last December you hit the wine with a quad dose (1 tsp/5 gallons) and that should knock out most things.

SO2 works by binding to contaminants, and gets used up. The more unwanted "stuff" in the wine, the faster the SO2 gets used up. I agree with @Rice_Guy about having too much SO2 at bottling time. I don't do SO2 testing, but it may be worth it for you do to that before bottling, especially if you add another high dose of SO2.

Is this a new barrel? If so, you may have left the wine in it too long, as new smaller barrels impart a LOT of oak character in a very short time. This is likely affecting the flavor.

I am not a fan of filling headspace with gas. Even if added carefully, all gases mix with the air in the headspace to some extent, and you have NO idea what the mix is, so having significant amounts of O2 is a risk. As a barrel evaporates and the space becomes larger, the risk increases.

If you top with wine, you know 100% what's in the barrel. I plan 10% loss over a year for 54 liter barrels, e.g., 16 gallons of wine for a 14.25 gallon barrel. For smaller barrels the percentage loss can be higher, and this is affected by temperature and humidity.

Regarding the chrome fixture, I do not have an answer, other than knowing heavy metals in wine are poisonous. I found this on WebMD, which provides a minimal background.

Heavy Metals Found in Wine (webmd.com)

Do a lot more research, not only for the wine but for any residue left in the barrel. I'm a big fan of doing what can be done to save a wine, but if there is a possibility it is poisoned, dump it!

In the future, I suggest using only equipment marketed specifically for winemaking. Wine is acidic and equipment suitable for beer may not be suitable for wine.

 

[winemaker81]

@DerrickPeavy, ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions.

Even if you do everything right, things can go wrong. Most the time it doesn't, but nothing is foolproof. Keep up with hygiene and always look for ways to improve.

Regarding barrels, size matters. More specifically, the ratio of interior surface area to total volume. The higher the ratio, the faster oak flavoring is imparted to the wine. When you hear of a winery aging a wine for 5 years in a new barrel, it's a 60 gallon barrel, not a 5 gallon.

The wine itself also matters -- a heavy red can handle more oak than a lighter bodied one without being overwhelmed. And your taste matters -- some folks like the wine to taste like they are chewing on the wood, while others like a mild flavoring.

I don't do SO2 testing -- I've never seen the need. I add 1/4 tsp K-meta at each racking and before bottling, and have never had detectable sulfur fumes.

Last fall I had my first personal encounter with hydrogen sulfide, and triple dosed the K-meta and stirred the heck out of it. I later dosed it with Reduless (product to manage H2S), more K-meta, and kieselsol/chitosan to force precipitation. I never smelled SO2 and still don't, although to be honest, it's hard to smell anything when H2S is present.

So ... I strike my previous comment and suggest that if you can't smell sulfur, don't worry about it.

I suspect the problem with the chrome tap is that it's for dispensing, not aging. Contact for an evening is trivial; contact for months on end may not be. Also, folks will sell items while having no clue that their product is dangerous.

I tried searching for "test wine for chrome" and got pages of results for WINE (compatibility layer for running Windows programs on Unix/Linux) and Chromebooks. You might try "heavy metal" instead of chrome. Also check the local universities for Agriculture programs, specifically grapes. They may do testing or be able to point you someplace that does.

Let's not give up hope on the wine. You can always dump it later, if you need to.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Thanks! Agreed. And I definetely know about the barrel volumes - nothing beats the smell of piping in 60 gallons of wine into a barrel. This is a cabernet and it never seemed to have much oak or char flavor when I tasted, always tasted green, so I kept it going.

I'll keep looking for a testing option and will call the extension service again - can't seem to find anything online either.

@DerrickPeavy, ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions.

Even if you do everything right, things can go wrong. Most the time it doesn't, but nothing is foolproof. Keep up with hygiene and always look for ways to improve.

Regarding barrels, size matters. More specifically, the ratio of interior surface area to total volume. The higher the ratio, the faster oak flavoring is imparted to the wine. When you hear of a winery aging a wine for 5 years in a new barrel, it's a 60 gallon barrel, not a 5 gallon.

The wine itself also matters -- a heavy red can handle more oak than a lighter bodied one without being overwhelmed. And your taste matters -- some folks like the wine to taste like they are chewing on the wood, while others like a mild flavoring.

I don't do SO2 testing -- I've never seen the need. I add 1/4 tsp K-meta at each racking and before bottling, and have never had detectable sulfur fumes.

Last fall I had my first personal encounter with hydrogen sulfide, and triple dosed the K-meta and stirred the heck out of it. I later dosed it with Reduless (product to manage H2S), more K-meta, and kieselsol/chitosan to force precipitation. I never smelled SO2 and still don't, although to be honest, it's hard to smell anything when H2S is present.

So ... I strike my previous comment and suggest that if you can't smell sulfur, don't worry about it.

I suspect the problem with the chrome tap is that it's for dispensing, not aging. Contact for an evening is trivial; contact for months on end may not be. Also, folks will sell items while having no clue that their product is dangerous.

I tried searching for "test wine for chrome" and got pages of results for WINE (compatibility layer for running Windows programs on Unix/Linux) and Chromebooks. You might try "heavy metal" instead of chrome. Also check the local universities for Agriculture programs, specifically grapes. They may do testing or be able to point you someplace that does.

Let's not give up hope on the wine. You can always dump it later, if you need to.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

@winemaker81 one other question - what about filtering? Would that remove too much of the wine character? I have a filter case would just need to order a 5 micron filter, or whatever is appropriate.

 

[winemaker81]

what about filtering?

If the wine is not clear, you'll quickly plug the coarsest filter. Filters are good for polishing, not clearing.

IMO, manually remove any foreign material and give pectic enzyme 2 weeks. Let's regroup then.

 

[Rice_Guy]

The US food system is quite regulated, ,,,, we can not put food in containers which are known to be toxic. The silicone gasket wine stopper is a product intended for contact with food/ beverage. (and I have a few of those fancy silicone gasket stoppers which I have used)
My assumption with mine is that they are a nontoxic food grade composite. Mine are not magnetic (steel). One with a white corrosion looks like aluminum, one which is shiny looks like anodized aluminum.

Good question

Here's my question, assuming I can recover form the unknown stuff floating on top of the wine, have I inadvertently poisoned my wine with chromium or some other chrome plating alloy?

View attachment 77605View attachment 77606

 

[sour_grapes]

Here's my question, assuming I can recover form the unknown stuff floating on top of the wine, have I inadvertently poisoned my wine with chromium or some other chrome plating alloy?

View attachment 77605View attachment 77606

It looks like stainless steel. SS generally DOES contain chromium, but not in a form that is dangerous. (You probably eat with it every day!)

 

[DerrickPeavy]

That's what I thought, but it's not magnetic!

It looks like stainless steel. SS generally DOES contain chromium, but not in a form that is dangerous. (You probably eat with it every day!)

 

[sour_grapes]

That's what I thought, but it's not magnetic!

Good! Almost all food-safe forms of SS are nonmagnetic. (The exceptions including 18/0, or 430, which is both foodsafe and magnetic.)

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Picked up the pectic enzyme. Also, did a PH sample with strips - diluted the wine 1:4 with distilled water, PH appears to be higher than 4.4. Sad face. Will test again when I get meter. The wine doesn't smell like vinegar. But it doesn't quite smell like wine either. Just kind of neutral.

If the wine is not clear, you'll quickly plug the coarsest filter. Filters are good for polishing, not clearing.

IMO, manually remove any foreign material and give pectic enzyme 2 weeks. Let's regroup then.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Recombined today after 3 days in kegs under nitro. Wine smelled fantastic! Still low alcohol. But, PH is high and vineyard winemaker where I picked up the grapes looked at pics and definitely feels the SO2 and PH are off. Added the pectic enzyme and another 1/4 tsp of SO2. Will probably add tartaric acid to bring PH down once I can test with a meter.

 

[winemaker81]

All sounds good. Use 1/2 or 1/4 of the tartaric you think you need. Stir it in and let it rest a week before tasting. Add more if you think it needs it. You can get on an acid yo-yo, fixing and unfixing the acid level until you mess the wine up.

Also, pay attention to your tastebuds. If the tastebuds say the wine is good and the pH meter disagrees, keep in mind the pH meter will NOT be drinking the wine ...

 

[DerrickPeavy]

So 9 days so far with pectic enzyme. Tested PH with a meter this morning. Reading is 4.01. I tested a white wine sample from a bottle I purchased at the local market. White wine was at 3.8. I also calibrated the meter before use, so I am going to guess the 4.01 is accurate.

All sounds good. Use 1/2 or 1/4 of the tartaric you think you need. Stir it in and let it rest a week before tasting. Add more if you think it needs it. You can get on an acid yo-yo, fixing and unfixing the acid level until you mess the wine up.

Also, pay attention to your tastebuds. If the tastebuds say the wine is good and the pH meter disagrees, keep in mind the pH meter will NOT be drinking the wine ...

 

[winemaker81]

Reading is 4.01.

What does the wine taste like? A white should have a bit of a bite to it. Does it taste flabby and/or lifeless? If so, a small amount of acid should help. Go light and let it rest a week before tasting again. It takes time for the acid to integrate.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

Well, this is a cabernet. I only tested the white to make sure the meter wasn't giving just a calibrated reading. It has a nice color and the aroma is OK, not as good as I would prefer. Still has a green wood taste. But otherwise neutral.

What does the wine taste like? A white should have a bit of a bite to it. Does it taste flabby and/or lifeless? If so, a small amount of acid should help. Go light and let it rest a week before tasting again. It takes time for the acid to integrate.

 

[winemaker81]

Well, this is a cabernet.

I lost track of variety ....

Keep in mind the wine is still young. It won't have the taste you're expecting for p another 6 months, possibly a year or more. To put this in perspective, the wine is a 9 yo child, so expecting it to act like an 18 yo is not feasible.

At this point, don't focus on the numbers. You've recently addressed other issues. Let the wine rest another month, then taste it.

 

[winemaker81]

@DerrickPeavy, read my tasting notes in my wine stix experiment. The ups and downs of the tasting are surprising, but may give you a boost in understanding that your wine is going through cycles that don't make apparent sense.

 

[DerrickPeavy]

August 18, I added pectic enzyme. Capped off with CO2. Checked at one week. Looked good. Checked at two weeks. Looked good. Kept the bubbler topped with star san, and capped each peak with CO2. But, today, September 11, I opened to take add tartaric acid and... the blob is back! Pics attached along with a close up under a magnifier. I skimmed as much as could off with a fine mesh strainer. Then, I added the tartaric acid and some more SO2 and closed up again. Not sure what to think. When I opened, there was an off smell, kind of bacterial like. Once I skimmed it off, there was more of a wine odor. So? I also sprayed the top with star san. Just don't know how much more clean I can be.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

But, today, September 11, I opened to take add tartaric acid and... the blob is back! Pics attached along with a close up under a magnifier. I skimmed as much as could off with a fine mesh strainer. Then, I added the tartaric acid and some more SO2 and closed up again. Not sure what to think. When I opened, there was an off smell, kind of bacterial like. Once I skimmed it off, there was more of a wine odor. So? I also sprayed the top with star san. Just don't know how much more clean I can be.

It's not uncommon to find this sort of film growing in barrels if you leave them too long between topping and a large headspace forms - and your wine is also relatively high pH, which also can promote unwanted growths.

The best way to get rid of it is reduce the airspace and maintain SO2 levels. When I'm topping a barrel that I know has film, I always 'overtop', filling the barrel through a wand that's submerged under the surface and adding wine until it flows out of the top. No airspace = less chance of spoilage microorganisms. However, if this is all your wine in this container, topping might not be an option unless you use, eg a commercial wine of the same varietal to fill the headspace.

SO2 is also your friend. If you have things growing in there, I would bet most of your SO2 has been consumed so it's good that you added more. (How much, 50ppm?) And hopefully that tartaric add will bring down the pH and discourage further growth. Did you test the pH after addition of the tartaric?

Finally, are you saying that you sprayed the top of your wine with StarSan? Not sure about that, I've only used it for sanitizing empty vessels and hoses. I would spray with, eg 6% w/v KMBS instead.