Hi all. I’m new to making wine so I starting with a strawberry. Found a recipe from a reputable site and followed instructions as I read them. Ordered the equipment, yeast, carboys etc abs sanitized everything each time I interacted with the wine. It looks good, taste good, ph readings good, hydrometer worked exactly as described etc. BUT when I taste even a small sample of this wine I get immediately dizzy and eyes droopy, fatigued etc. Concerned about a toxin in this wine. Botulism for one. The only thing I can think of that may have been a factor is used frozen strawberry and put all the additives in immediately as well as the water. I also added the sugar in as granulated so a lot of it ended up at the bottom but fermentation was vigorous within hours of pitching yeast. Not sure how comfortable I feel ingesting much more of this. Tried it 5-6 times and each time I get the same reaction. Help!
What went wrong?
- Thread starter Bgoodwine
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It sounds like you may have an allergic reaction to strawberries. Or at least the type of frozen strawberries they were. Have you tried eating the same berries that you made the wine with?
FIRST OF ALL WELCOME TO WINE MAKING TALK
* botulism organisms will not grow below pH 4.( and yes Clostridium does produce a toxin that causes paralysis), if the pH was good you can rule that Clostridium out, plus it requires anaerobic conditions,
* as a blanket statement food poisoning organisms do not live below pH 4 plus if one puts in alcohol above 10% wine resists spoilage organisms. You mention sugar on the bottom so I have to ask is it still there? The competition by yeast is extremely good above 5% alcohol so most bacteria can not tolerate the environment. The organisms which tolerate the pH and alcohol may taste bad as vinegar but can’t kill 99.9% of the population, ,,, as @Rembee asked do you have a history of reacting to wine?
* other toxin, ,, alcohol is a toxin however I will guess you have had it before so not likely
* yeast produce a soup so it is possible you are reacting to something as glutathione/ sterols/ volatile acidity/ yeast cells that have not settled out/ carbon dioxide flavors
* other things in the food system, the states are pretty well regulated so this is unusual and if something happened a frozen berry producer has to do a food recall (was this a small pick your own farm?)
, , , , , , ,
what were the numbers at must stage (pH, gravity)
what are the numbers now?
how long has this wine been in process? how long was the fermentation?
* botulism organisms will not grow below pH 4.( and yes Clostridium does produce a toxin that causes paralysis), if the pH was good you can rule that Clostridium out, plus it requires anaerobic conditions,
* as a blanket statement food poisoning organisms do not live below pH 4 plus if one puts in alcohol above 10% wine resists spoilage organisms. You mention sugar on the bottom so I have to ask is it still there? The competition by yeast is extremely good above 5% alcohol so most bacteria can not tolerate the environment. The organisms which tolerate the pH and alcohol may taste bad as vinegar but can’t kill 99.9% of the population, ,,, as @Rembee asked do you have a history of reacting to wine?
* other toxin, ,, alcohol is a toxin however I will guess you have had it before so not likely
* yeast produce a soup so it is possible you are reacting to something as glutathione/ sterols/ volatile acidity/ yeast cells that have not settled out/ carbon dioxide flavors
* other things in the food system, the states are pretty well regulated so this is unusual and if something happened a frozen berry producer has to do a food recall (was this a small pick your own farm?)
, , , , , , ,
what were the numbers at must stage (pH, gravity)
what are the numbers now?
how long has this wine been in process? how long was the fermentation?
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S.G was 1.07 when I first measured it and that was with some sugar still on the bottom. Fermentation went about 3 days and hydrometer read 1.01. Transfered to carboy for secondary and after another 2-3 days reading was .99. Very dry. Did not take PH reading in the beginning but ph now is 3.3. I racked the wine again when I hit the .99 to get it off the sediment/lees to start clarifying. I used two one gallon carboys with airlocks. No more bubbling at this point. I added one campden tablet to each gallon and also the recommended amount of potassium sorbate prior to sweetening. The strawberries were from Walmart lol. Hey cheap.
* industrial strawberry is about 50 cents so actually retail strawberry isn’t cheap, ,, no a Walmart product is big enough that it has QA checks and written specifications
* from the clues you have given potassium sorbate would be the likely culprit. Yes, There are some folks who react to it, in the range of 1 per 100,000 and usually as a topical medicine skin irritation ,,, not usually at the levels in our food supply, ,,, sorbic acid is a common ingredient in processed foods ranging from cheese food to soft twist bread to silage for cows
* a Campden tablet is half a gram, my normal dosage is 0.2 gram per gallon so this is on the high side but not bad. Free SO2 will be consumed with age so the risk of a sulphite reaction decreases with time
* next check up mention your reaction to your physician,
as a food, ,,, or as a food preservation system wine is quite safe.
* from the clues you have given potassium sorbate would be the likely culprit. Yes, There are some folks who react to it, in the range of 1 per 100,000 and usually as a topical medicine skin irritation ,,, not usually at the levels in our food supply, ,,, sorbic acid is a common ingredient in processed foods ranging from cheese food to soft twist bread to silage for cows
* a Campden tablet is half a gram, my normal dosage is 0.2 gram per gallon so this is on the high side but not bad. Free SO2 will be consumed with age so the risk of a sulphite reaction decreases with time
* next check up mention your reaction to your physician,
as a food, ,,, or as a food preservation system wine is quite safe.
Do you react to strawberries? If you're a wine drinker, I first suspect the fruit. Does anyone else react to it?
Given that the reaction was immediate, I also suspect an allergy. I suggest checking with an allergist and don't taste the wine again until you do.
BTW -- when listing SG, use 3 significant digits to the right of the decimal, e.g., 1.070. This helps avoid confusion as when someone types 1.01 we don't know for sure if it's correct (1.010) or if there is a typo (1.100 or 1.001).
Given that the reaction was immediate, I also suspect an allergy. I suggest checking with an allergist and don't taste the wine again until you do.
BTW -- when listing SG, use 3 significant digits to the right of the decimal, e.g., 1.070. This helps avoid confusion as when someone types 1.01 we don't know for sure if it's correct (1.010) or if there is a typo (1.100 or 1.001).
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All great points. The one thing I didn’t add and I don’t think this would affect any toxin per say but when I put the campden tablet in after going into one gallon carboys I crushed it and added directly. Did not dissolve very well. Rookie mistake I supposed. Tried to mix it in but there was still a ton of sediment on the bottom. Left it a few days and kept stirring. Finally just siphoned off the wine from the sediment. Not sure if that was a smart move or not. I put the potassium sorbate in some water to make sure it was dissolved before I added it. Better result.
Oh btw I do not have an allergy to strawberries. Love them. It’s just bizarre when I taste this wine my system goes a little haywire. Maybe need to let it sit awhile and give it another small sample. I would have my wife try it but not sure that would go well if it got her sick. Lol
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did you punch down that cap every day, if not you could of got spoilage pic number 3 looks if'y but my sight as good as when younger,
Dawg
Dawg
I punch it two to three times daily while it was in primary. And stirred it around to get some O2 in there. I sampled it throughout and had no issues until after I put it in the carboy for a week or so. And then I added the campden and pot sorbate. Then it was a different story. Maybe the chemicals had not dissolved very well and I was ingesting more concentration of them in my samplings? Or maybe something developed early on in primary like you suggested. Wish there was some way to test it for toxins. But haven’t found anything for home use.
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sound good,, your beyond me, lol,, i wish you the best,
Dawg
Dawg
I’m with @winemaker81, I would be leery about taking any chances with a severe allergic reaction. How much is “even a small sample”? Any chance you got chemicals mixed up? It’s your first homemade wine, so maybe post a picture of the packages to make sure you’re using the right stuff. If you are a wine drinker, especially sweet wines, I would think a sensitivity to Potassium Sorbate or Potassium/Sodium Metabisulfite would have shown up before now. Did you add Campden tablets to the must (strawberries) before fermentation? If so, it would likely rule that out as the allergen since you had no problems after fermentation. Are the Campden tablets Sodium or Potassium Metabisulfite? Do you have any other allergies that you’re aware of?
It’s more expensive, but maybe try a cheap sweet wine kit next. Packages of chemicals are numbered and dosed correctly. A sweet wine will come with Sorbate to prevent re-fermentation, although it might be packaged together with the k-meta. Taste before adding any chemicals, then add one at a time, and taste. And yes, it works best to dissolve in a small amount of water, or wine, first.
It’s more expensive, but maybe try a cheap sweet wine kit next. Packages of chemicals are numbered and dosed correctly. A sweet wine will come with Sorbate to prevent re-fermentation, although it might be packaged together with the k-meta. Taste before adding any chemicals, then add one at a time, and taste. And yes, it works best to dissolve in a small amount of water, or wine, first.
BernardSmith
Senior Member
Hi Bgoodwine - and welcome.
If this happened once it might point to something that was co-incidental rather than causal. If it happened a half dozen times then I agree that causality seems to be implied. What you have not offered , however, is the recipe and the procedure you used to make this wine. It may be that you are doing something or adding something that might trigger this reaction. That said, I have to say that Sorbate dissolves with no problem in wine. K-meta does not and it may be that you are sensitive to the sulfur dioxide produced by K-meta... Or it may be that you are breathing in a great deal of CO2 from the fermenter. There is more than enough carbon dioxide produced by the yeast to extinguish a match. Might that be the cause of your dizziness?
If this happened once it might point to something that was co-incidental rather than causal. If it happened a half dozen times then I agree that causality seems to be implied. What you have not offered , however, is the recipe and the procedure you used to make this wine. It may be that you are doing something or adding something that might trigger this reaction. That said, I have to say that Sorbate dissolves with no problem in wine. K-meta does not and it may be that you are sensitive to the sulfur dioxide produced by K-meta... Or it may be that you are breathing in a great deal of CO2 from the fermenter. There is more than enough carbon dioxide produced by the yeast to extinguish a match. Might that be the cause of your dizziness?
This is the recipe I used to create the must. I used frozen strawberry instead of fresh though. I just tripled the amounts based on a three gallon batch.
Ingredients
3.5 lbs. Strawberries (fresh or frozen)
112 oz. water
2 lbs. sugar
1 tsp Acid Blend
0.5 tsp. Pectic Enzyme
1 Campden Tablet
1 tsp. Yeast Nutrient
1/4 tsp Tannin
1 pack Lalvin K1-V1116 wine yeast
https://northeastwinemaking.com/pages/strawberry-wine
Ingredients
3.5 lbs. Strawberries (fresh or frozen)
112 oz. water
2 lbs. sugar
1 tsp Acid Blend
0.5 tsp. Pectic Enzyme
1 Campden Tablet
1 tsp. Yeast Nutrient
1/4 tsp Tannin
1 pack Lalvin K1-V1116 wine yeast
https://northeastwinemaking.com/pages/strawberry-wine
I ordered the kit btw. Gonna try that too. I’m sure it’s something I did early on but just can’t seem to figure out the issue. I don’t. Have any allergies I’m aware of. Drink sweet wines religiously as well as traditional styles (chards, cabs, Pinot) I have a peach wine I made the same way sitting in second fermentation. I’ll try that and see if I get the same reaction. Hopefully not. I want to drink my own wine dang it. Hahaha. Just don’t want to get sick from it.
BernardSmith
Senior Member
If you are confident that the labelled ingredients you used were accurately labelled and used correctly then there would be nothing obvious in these products. Is there someone else who might be able to sample your wine and see if they have a similar reaction?
Oh did not triple the yeast. Used one packet.
BernardSmith
Senior Member
But there is really nothing in wine that would /could make anyone sick unless they were allergic or sensitive to ingredients that are in just about any bottle of commercial wine and indeed, in many food products without alcohol from dried fruit to soft drinks.
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