when good wines gone bad
- Thread starter joeswine
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
... I was driving down a road in this retirement development I'm always in came around a bend in the road and there he was.He was coming from a stream and headed for the lake
across the road.I stop and help him across the street,if not he would have been. Hit .placed him over the wire fence and he was gone into the water.He was about 18 inches across and about 20inches long , weight about 10 lbs.and I just assumed it was a him.
across the road.I stop and help him across the street,if not he would have been. Hit .placed him over the wire fence and he was gone into the water.He was about 18 inches across and about 20inches long , weight about 10 lbs.and I just assumed it was a him.
Last edited:
Joe...if you ever see a turtle moving AWAY from water and going uphill...you would be wise to follow him! Big water is coming soon! I've seen it three times and each time was followed by flood amount rainfalls. I don't know how they know. but they do.
Was hunting with an old German farmer once down along the river...he showed me grasshoppers that had climbed all the way to top of the tall Johnson grass. He said let's go, we did, four hour later that bottom was flooded. I pay attention to turtles and old men!
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
Coffee port continued
Not much more left but holding this wine for at least a year is an excellent move
The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)
Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water
Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.
After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)
Not much more left but holding this wine for at least a year is an excellent move
Cru Coffee Port Kit
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)
Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water
Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.
After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)
- After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
- We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
- We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
- We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
- Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)
- Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a good stir.
![[Upgraded] 9Pcs Tree Root Growing Box with Drain Holes, Half Transparent Plant Rooting Propagation Ball & Metal Core Twist Ties, for Fast Propagation Plants (Size M)](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/514MWQxtWOL._SL500_.jpg)
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
Sangiovese the prince of italian reds
Here is the beginning of the process. We are starting with an inexpensive wine kit from Wine Expert- World Vineyard. It's an Italian Sangiovese. My friend, Katie (Neviawen from the forum here) was here at my house to document the process for us all. I will include pictures throughout the making of this kit, as well as what we are going to do to take an inexpensive kit and make great wine from it.
Step 1: We have acquired our kit, sanitized everything, and laid out all of our tools before we started.
Step2: Added 1/2 gallon of hot water to my fermentation bucket and added bentonite. Stirred until no clumps.
Step 3: Opened up the bag of "grape juice" and dumped into the bucket and stirred.
Step 4; Added 1/2 gal of spring water to the empty bag (where the juice came from, to rinse it out) and swished it around. Added that to the bucket and stirred.
Step 5: Topped the bucket off w/ spring water to the 6 gallon mark and stirred more.
Step 6: Took our specific gravity reading. Posted that on our hanging tag.
Step 7: Added 2 bags of oak chips and pitched the yeast. (sprinkled it on top, do not stir).
Step 8: Cover the top of the bucket with a clean towel. This will prevent anything from falling into it.
Then we wait 5-7 days. We will then move onto the next phase.
Next:
Ok, today is 7 days from when we started this kit. We took our specific gravity reading and it is at 1.028. Slowly it's fermenting dry.
I also put up a picture of what the bucket looks like right now. You can see there are some bubbles and oak chips floating on top. It smells great! Stay tuned- it will be going into the carboy for secondary fermentation soon..
Next:
Sorry this was so late getting posted. I had a few hectic weeks. I did manage to take the pictures to keep up with the process. Here we go- it’s getting interesting!
10 days after we started this kit, we checked the Specific Gravity and it is 1.000- it is almost dry. Now is when we add the raisons and powdered oak (wine tannin powder). We are using 1 pound of black raisons (you can use white raisons for white wines) and we are using 4 tbsp. of the powdered oak.
Here is a picture of the powdered oak and raisons at the bottom of our carboy.
For our demonstration we are using the auto-syphon instead of my wine pump. This is the most basic tool for this job and is what most beginner home winemakers have handy. Transferring the wine from the primary fermentation bucket to the carboy helps to degas the wine.
When you get to the bottom of the bucket when syphoning, you can use wedges to prop up one end of the bucket. This helps you get the most out of your wine.
We now have our wine in the 6 gallon carboy. Let’s stir it up good to get all the raisons and powdered oak mixed well. This also will help degas more.
We are using a 6 gallon carboy but only have a 5 gallon batch of wine. I am filling the remaining 1 gallon of headspace with Nitrogen. Once this is racked again it will go into a 5 gallon carboy.
As always, we write our latest specific gravity reading on our tag and hang it on the carboy.
Cover the carboy up with a towel to keep light out.
Next:
Sangiovese Update: My oh My! It's tasty so far!
Here's our observation:
There was a heavy body to it, medium tannins, nice bite and a zing of acidity. It will be a good wine when aged.
Here's a few pictures. But first, let's explain what were looking at.
There are 3 pictures here. One the side of the glass in the pictures you will notice a "clear smear". This is what we call the wine's "legs". Having these when you tip a glass of wine indicates that the wine has good body and alcohol content.
Next, you will notice the "age line". This is the line that is between the surface of the wine and the distance to the color of the wine. The smaller this line is, the longer your wine has aged. You will see in our pictures that this wine is still very young yet the ring is close. That is the difference in a kit; they are made to age quick so you can drink them faster.
Final step to our Sangiovese kit: Bottling!
Before we started, we got all the tools out of our toolbox that we would need. We also sanitized all our bottles and had them ready.
What we had ready before we started:
Sanitized Bottles
Funnel
Ferrari Bottle Filler
Long Stirring wand
seals
corks
Packets of Sorbate and K-Met that came with the kit
my bottle sealing tool (don't know what it's called but it holds the seal on top the bottle while I dip it into boiling water), notice we didn't filter, that's because we racked down to clear.
Next, we dumped the 2 packets of ingredients into the carboy and gave it a stir w/ the wand (I didn't take a picture of this, you all know how to just give it a stir.)
I then placed the Ferrari bottling tool on top of an empty bottle, put the larger hose into the carboy and applied suction to the smaller hose to start the syphon. Once the wine starts to flow I place this smaller hose into an empty bottle just so it's out of the way.
What is great about this tool is that once a bottle is full it automatically stops the wine flow so that it doesn't overflow. You will see that it gets to a certain level in the little chamber and then it stops filling. When this happens you put the Ferrari tool into the next bottle and proceed.
When you have all bottles filled, you cork them. Once they are corked you seal them.
Fit the seal over the bottle, I use a tool that holds the seal on top the bottle for me as I dip them into boiling water. I dip it in, give it one twist real quick and pull it out. (Literally takes 2 seconds and it's sealed.)
Winexperts Sangiovese
Step 1: We have acquired our kit, sanitized everything, and laid out all of our tools before we started.
Step2: Added 1/2 gallon of hot water to my fermentation bucket and added bentonite. Stirred until no clumps.
Step 3: Opened up the bag of "grape juice" and dumped into the bucket and stirred.
Step 4; Added 1/2 gal of spring water to the empty bag (where the juice came from, to rinse it out) and swished it around. Added that to the bucket and stirred.
Step 5: Topped the bucket off w/ spring water to the 6 gallon mark and stirred more.
Step 6: Took our specific gravity reading. Posted that on our hanging tag.
Step 7: Added 2 bags of oak chips and pitched the yeast. (sprinkled it on top, do not stir).
Step 8: Cover the top of the bucket with a clean towel. This will prevent anything from falling into it.
Then we wait 5-7 days. We will then move onto the next phase.
Next:
Ok, today is 7 days from when we started this kit. We took our specific gravity reading and it is at 1.028. Slowly it's fermenting dry.
I also put up a picture of what the bucket looks like right now. You can see there are some bubbles and oak chips floating on top. It smells great! Stay tuned- it will be going into the carboy for secondary fermentation soon..
Next:
Sorry this was so late getting posted. I had a few hectic weeks. I did manage to take the pictures to keep up with the process. Here we go- it’s getting interesting!
10 days after we started this kit, we checked the Specific Gravity and it is 1.000- it is almost dry. Now is when we add the raisons and powdered oak (wine tannin powder). We are using 1 pound of black raisons (you can use white raisons for white wines) and we are using 4 tbsp. of the powdered oak.
Here is a picture of the powdered oak and raisons at the bottom of our carboy.
For our demonstration we are using the auto-syphon instead of my wine pump. This is the most basic tool for this job and is what most beginner home winemakers have handy. Transferring the wine from the primary fermentation bucket to the carboy helps to degas the wine.
When you get to the bottom of the bucket when syphoning, you can use wedges to prop up one end of the bucket. This helps you get the most out of your wine.
We now have our wine in the 6 gallon carboy. Let’s stir it up good to get all the raisons and powdered oak mixed well. This also will help degas more.
We are using a 6 gallon carboy but only have a 5 gallon batch of wine. I am filling the remaining 1 gallon of headspace with Nitrogen. Once this is racked again it will go into a 5 gallon carboy.
As always, we write our latest specific gravity reading on our tag and hang it on the carboy.
Cover the carboy up with a towel to keep light out.
Next:
Sangiovese Update: My oh My! It's tasty so far!
Here's our observation:
There was a heavy body to it, medium tannins, nice bite and a zing of acidity. It will be a good wine when aged.
Here's a few pictures. But first, let's explain what were looking at.
There are 3 pictures here. One the side of the glass in the pictures you will notice a "clear smear". This is what we call the wine's "legs". Having these when you tip a glass of wine indicates that the wine has good body and alcohol content.
Next, you will notice the "age line". This is the line that is between the surface of the wine and the distance to the color of the wine. The smaller this line is, the longer your wine has aged. You will see in our pictures that this wine is still very young yet the ring is close. That is the difference in a kit; they are made to age quick so you can drink them faster.
Final step to our Sangiovese kit: Bottling!
Before we started, we got all the tools out of our toolbox that we would need. We also sanitized all our bottles and had them ready.
What we had ready before we started:
Sanitized Bottles
Funnel
Ferrari Bottle Filler
Long Stirring wand
seals
corks
Packets of Sorbate and K-Met that came with the kit
my bottle sealing tool (don't know what it's called but it holds the seal on top the bottle while I dip it into boiling water), notice we didn't filter, that's because we racked down to clear.
Next, we dumped the 2 packets of ingredients into the carboy and gave it a stir w/ the wand (I didn't take a picture of this, you all know how to just give it a stir.)
I then placed the Ferrari bottling tool on top of an empty bottle, put the larger hose into the carboy and applied suction to the smaller hose to start the syphon. Once the wine starts to flow I place this smaller hose into an empty bottle just so it's out of the way.
What is great about this tool is that once a bottle is full it automatically stops the wine flow so that it doesn't overflow. You will see that it gets to a certain level in the little chamber and then it stops filling. When this happens you put the Ferrari tool into the next bottle and proceed.
When you have all bottles filled, you cork them. Once they are corked you seal them.
Fit the seal over the bottle, I use a tool that holds the seal on top the bottle for me as I dip them into boiling water. I dip it in, give it one twist real quick and pull it out. (Literally takes 2 seconds and it's sealed.)
Wow, thanks Joe! I just happen to have a Sangiovese kit in my root cellar, and this is great info. Some Q's though:
First, my kit comes with both oak and tannin. Is what you suggest adding with the raisins in addition to what came in the kit?
Second, the nitrogen topper sounds like a great idea. I know I can Google this but hey, it's easier just to ask you: How do you find nitrogen gas in a delivery system to add to carboys?
Third, In the procedure Here is a picture of the powdered oak and raisons at the bottom of our carboy. To me that picture looks dry, as if you placed these ingredients into the carboy before racking the wine on top of it? Could you please elaborate?
Also great info on the view of the wine in the glass, but I cannot find the pictures. And thanks for the info on the Ferrari bottle filler--it looks like the answer to my prayers!
Last but not least, thank you for sharing your experiments and expertise!
First, my kit comes with both oak and tannin. Is what you suggest adding with the raisins in addition to what came in the kit?
Second, the nitrogen topper sounds like a great idea. I know I can Google this but hey, it's easier just to ask you: How do you find nitrogen gas in a delivery system to add to carboys?
Third, In the procedure Here is a picture of the powdered oak and raisons at the bottom of our carboy. To me that picture looks dry, as if you placed these ingredients into the carboy before racking the wine on top of it? Could you please elaborate?
Also great info on the view of the wine in the glass, but I cannot find the pictures. And thanks for the info on the Ferrari bottle filler--it looks like the answer to my prayers!
Last but not least, thank you for sharing your experiments and expertise!
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
1)Add the raisins to the secondary along with the oak powder.
2)Nitrogen comes in a high pressure vessel added to the mix with a nitrogen regulator.
3) That was taken after the secondary was completed to show what you should see at the bottom.
4)Doing this kit my style takes a little more work and patients but it will all pay off in the end.
In most cases I'll take the long way around in the wine making process ,do to the small quantities we make at a time, it really isn't a problem to me and I've done so many that I just move through the process without thinking. Second nature.
2)Nitrogen comes in a high pressure vessel added to the mix with a nitrogen regulator.
3) That was taken after the secondary was completed to show what you should see at the bottom.
4)Doing this kit my style takes a little more work and patients but it will all pay off in the end.
In most cases I'll take the long way around in the wine making process ,do to the small quantities we make at a time, it really isn't a problem to me and I've done so many that I just move through the process without thinking. Second nature.
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
It's been a while since I've post so lets review the Green Apple Riesling before I bottle, this wine has been under pressure and away from the elements and settling quite nicely, lets review>first is my fpac, then the process...follow the flow.
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
Coffee port
The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphate
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)
Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee {KEY TO BOOSTED TASTE}
· Spring Water
Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Liters/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphate Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.
After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)
Cru Coffee Port Kit
The box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphate
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)
Our additions:
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee {KEY TO BOOSTED TASTE}
· Spring Water
Tools you will need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Liters/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphate Powder for sanitizing
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons.
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir.
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10.
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5.
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest.
After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)
- After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy.
- We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it.
- We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port.
- We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir.
- Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.)
- Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a good stir.
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
tools in the tool box
to answer all your questions= YES, I have all kinds of tools in my tool box but nice and easy also does it every time.
the coffee port is without a doubt in my mind the best port for easy drinking ,smooth, good abv. great in balance with tannins and flavor ,it has shown itself to be a contender no matter what competition I enter it in ,I always know I'll win, place or show.
to answer all your questions= YES, I have all kinds of tools in my tool box but nice and easy also does it every time.
the coffee port is without a doubt in my mind the best port for easy drinking ,smooth, good abv. great in balance with tannins and flavor ,it has shown itself to be a contender no matter what competition I enter it in ,I always know I'll win, place or show.
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,859
- Reaction score
- 2,895
the zest was added in the secondary because that's were the lemon extract will impart the most value,s sometimes when I tweak a kit and the tastes is a little flat then before I bottle I'll add the zest and allow it to sit and clear for a month or until I m ready to bottle.
Last edited:
Similar threads
