When to move to cellar temperature

[Xlev]

Hi

I have finished fermenting a Winexpert Nebbiolo kit a few days ago and moved it to a secondary fermenter with oak cubes.It has been 2 weeks since I started fermentation and its completely dry. The instructions say to keep the fermenter at 68-77 degrees for around 2 months but this temperature seems to high to me. I have a cellar at 55 degrees and I am wondering when should I move it there? Im in no hurry to start drinking the wine,and I am thinking of bulk aging it for about a year.

 

[Ohio Bob]

My guess is because it’s a kit, and the manufacturer wants your wine to be COMPLETELY fermented, that’s what they are recommending. You are fine to move it to 55F.

By the way, my whites, peach, blackberry, all get fermented at 55-60. As long as you have time it’s not an issue.

 

[heatherd]

You can bulk-age at room temperature, bottle, and move to the cellar at that point. That is what I do.

 

[sour_grapes]

Note that natural degassing happens much faster at room temperature than at cellar temperature...

 

[winemaker81]

When reading the instructions, keep in mind that the instructions are optimized for beginners who do not have experienced help, and do not have a hydrometer. Everything is geared towards preventing 28-30 mini-volcanoes, also known as "fermenting in the bottle". Having experienced help and having a hydrometer change the situation completely.

Paul is correct regarding degassing temperature. If you were bottling sooner, this would matter, but it's likely the wine will degas over the course of the next year or so. If you have manually degassed already, this is not an issue.

A few years back I started manually degassing all wines -- but do a short course, 1 minute with drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. Just getting the wine moving, and along with racking, gets the degassing process going and IME the wine degasses complete within a few weeks.

 

[Xlev]

When reading the instructions, keep in mind that the instructions are optimized for beginners who do not have experienced help, and do not have a hydrometer. Everything is geared towards preventing 28-30 mini-volcanoes, also known as "fermenting in the bottle". Having experienced help and having a hydrometer change the situation completely.

Paul is correct regarding degassing temperature. If you were bottling sooner, this would matter, but it's likely the wine will degas over the course of the next year or so. If you have manually degassed already, this is not an issue.

A few years back I started manually degassing all wines -- but do a short course, 1 minute with drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. Just getting the wine moving, and along with racking, gets the degassing process going and IME the wine degasses complete within a few weeks.

Thank you for all tour replies,I appreciate it.
One thing Im wondering about degassing is if it is detrimental to the wine quality?You would be oxidizing the wine in the process right?

The reason I thought to transfter the wine in the cellar is to slow down ageing,and hopefully produce a better wine in the long term,but not sure if that statement is true

 

[winemaker81]

One thing Im wondering about degassing is if it is detrimental to the wine quality?You would be oxidizing the wine in the process right?

The short answer is no.

The longer answer? The wine is emitting a large amount of CO2, which pushes air away from the wine, so the exposure is minimal.

Unless working in a completely sealed environment, there is no way to prevent O2 exposure. We add k-meta i handle the exposure. Besides, yeast uses O2 for reproduction AND micro-oxidation is a desired result during aging.

O2 is not the bogeyman that is so commonly believed. If it was, there's be no wine, it would all oxidize immediately.

Once degassed, work efficiently (not hurriedly) and add k-meta to handle oxidation and other contaminants.

 

[ChuckD]

I have never heard that degassing has a positive or negative effect on quality. When C02 is off gassing it does protect the wine from oxidation though so perhaps a slow natural degassing can be protective. If you are adding K-meta at each racking your ok either way.

ETA… what @winemaker81 said.

 

[Swedeman]

Im in no hurry to start drinking the wine,and I am thinking of bulk aging it for about a year.

That's good as this kit does need to age. I made it 4 years ago and it wasn't ready to drink (IMO) until the 2 years mark but it was worth the wait.

 

[wineview]

When reading the instructions, keep in mind that the instructions are optimized for beginners who do not have experienced help, and do not have a hydrometer. Everything is geared towards preventing 28-30 mini-volcanoes, also known as "fermenting in the bottle". Having experienced help and having a hydrometer change the situation completely.

Paul is correct regarding degassing temperature. If you were bottling sooner, this would matter, but it's likely the wine will degas over the course of the next year or so. If you have manually degassed already, this is not an issue.

A few years back I started manually degassing all wines -- but do a short course, 1 minute with drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction half way through. Just getting the wine moving, and along with racking, gets the degassing process going and IME the wine degasses complete within a few weeks.

I degass for 2-4 minutes on a drill now. I remember seeing a video on the Northern Brewer site where they degassed for 20-30 minutes with a drill mount.

 

[Raptor99]

I remember seeing a video on the Northern Brewer site where they degassed for 20-30 minutes with a drill mount.

That sounds extreme! I would never take the time to do that. My method is 5-6 months bulk aging plus use AIO pump for racking. Before bottling I use a drill mounted paddle to mix in any pre-bottling additives such as stabilizer, sweetener, and glycerin. That has the effect of removing most of the remaining CO2, if any.

 

[winemaker81]

I degass for 2-4 minutes on a drill now. I remember seeing a video on the Northern Brewer site where they degassed for 20-30 minutes with a drill mount.

Wow! I'd be concerned that 20 minutes would introduce O2.

Before bottling I use a drill mounted paddle to mix in any pre-bottling additives such as stabilizer, sweetener, and glycerin. That has the effect of removing most of the remaining CO2, if any.

Good point. The last few batches I did, I did a 1 minute degas, racked into a carboy, adding kieselsol at the beginning of the rack. After the rack I added the chitosan and stirred for another minute. This is in a 23 liter carboy, so it wasn't full and had room for stirring.

 

[BigDaveK]

@Xlev it's possible the manufacturer suggests that temperature range so that the wine will mature a bit faster making it drinkable sooner. (And you'll buy another kit sooner. ) You can put it in the cellar at any time, the chemical reactions will slow, and it will simply take a bit longer to mature.

There are so many chemical reactions taking place in a bottle of wine with so many variables, it's amazing. I've read that the rule of thumb is that for every 18 degree (F) change the rate of chemical reactions double. So wine at 73F ages twice as fast as wine at 55F. But like I said, that's a rule of thumb and wine is incredibly complex. I've also read that some wines stored for 3 years at 73F is equivalent to 26 years at 55F.

 

[wineview]

That sounds extreme! I would never take the time to do that. My method is 5-6 months bulk aging plus use AIO pump for racking. Before bottling I use a drill mounted paddle to mix in any pre-bottling additives such as stabilizer, sweetener, and glycerin. That has the effect of removing most of the remaining CO2, if any.

Believe it or not. Here is what Northern Brewer is telling folks.

 

[Raptor99]

I can believe that it could take 15-20 minutes to degas if you want to completely degas after primary fermentation. What is not clear to me is why you would want to do that. In the video he says that degassing improves the "flavor and longevity" of your wine. Flavor I would believe, but I don't see how the presence of CO2 would decrease the longevity. But why not finish any necessary degassing before bottling?

The one argument for early degassing that makes sense to me is that degassing helps to get the lees to settle out sooner.

Maybe these instructions are for those making kits who want to bottle 2 months after starting fermentation. In that case, you would need to spend quite a bit of time degassing.

 

[Swedeman]

Tim Vandergrift at NorthenbrewerTV: In less than 2 minutes (at the 3 minutes mark).

Believe it or not. Here is what Northern Brewer is telling folks.

Are these two from the same company?

 

[wineview]

Tim Vandergrift at NorthenbrewerTV: In less than 2 minutes (at the 3 minutes mark).


Are these two from the same company?

The insignia in the upper left corner would indicate yes. This particular video is a pretty slick infomercial.

 

[wineview]

Yep….this guy isn’t your typical home wine maker. This is what I found.

Tim Vandergrift Consulting and Communications​

 

[Swedeman]

Yep….this guy isn’t your typical home wine maker.

He is considered the father of wine kits!

 

[wineview]

His title sounds like a PR guy.