Which grape varieties to plant? Location: Austria

[blumentopferde]

Hello!
It might be quite unusual to have someone from Europe posting here, but as all german-speaking wine-making forums seem to be dead or deserted I want to give it a try!

I'm planning to lay out a small vineyard in Austria, central Europe, and I am still looking for a red grape variety that might fit my needs. I do this as a hobby, so I am not dependend on the market situation and very open minded on whatever might be suitable for the soil and climate.

So what am I searching for? A red grape variety, that is suitable for high quality red wine (no hybrids, please!) and that fits into and profits from the conditions listed below:

EDIT: I restructured the list and added some data:
Region:
Styria, Austria, Central Europe
This region is a traditional wine growing region, primarily cultivated with white grape varieties, mostly: Welschriesling/Riesling Italico (local white grape variety), Pinot Blanc, Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, and Traminer /Savagnin.

Appelation
The appelation, where my wineyard lies, is famous for all variations of Traminer / Savagnin and seems to have perfect conditions for this grape (heavy, volcanic soils, relatively high precipitation, mild autumns which allow late vintages). Apart from Traminer you will find all the other varieties listed above. You may also find some red grape varieties, mostly Zweigelt (fairly new Austrian variety) and Blauer Wildbacher (very old Austrian Variety, which is usually vinified into Rosé).
Curiously I never found any interesting red wine produced in this area, even though we have some renowned wineyards here. Red wine has no tradition in this area and producers don't seem to be very ambitious about these wines. So that it is why I am asking you and not them!

location
latitude: 46,77°N
orientation: WSW
declination: 25°
sea level: ~370m/~1200ft
area: 2000m² / 21500ft²

climate:
growing season (average temperatures over 10°C/50°F): 179 days: April 18 - October 14
last/first Frost (minimum Temperature below 0°C/32°F): April 18, October 21
frost free days: 185
temperature
mean annual temperature: 9.3°C/48°F
mean temperature April 1 - October 31: 14.8°C/59°F
mean July temperature: 19.4°C/66°F
Days with frosts below -10°C/14°F: 9
extreme minimum temperatures up to -27°C/-16,6°F
Days with maximum temperatures over 30°C/86°F: 8
extreme maximum temperature: 36.5°C/98°F
sunshine
mean annual hours of sunshine: 1930h
mean hours of sunshine April 1 - October 31: 1470,7
annual global solar radiation: ~1180kWh/m²a
precipitation
mean annual precipitation: 841mm/33.11in
mean precipitation April 1 - October 31: 600mm/23.6in
peak precipitation: July - 115mm/4.5in
hailstorms: 0,75/year
wind
mean wind speed: 2.8m/s - 5.44kn - 6.26mph
main wind directions: SSW and NNO
observations:
The summers can be very wet in this area, hailstorms may occur even several times a year (2 years ago the harvest was almost completely destroyed), due to the moisture there is a high risk of Peronospora. In the last years the first frost may occur very late, sometimes even after New Year.

soil:
depth: medium
structure: fine and very heavy
drainage class: medium
available water capacity: 130l/m² / 7in?
cmposition:
6in: 5% sand, 44% Silt, 52% clay, 0%lime
10in: basalt slag (volcanic origin)
Further information: This information comes from a soil map. I don't have more specific information (yet). The soil comes from volcanic origin. It is red on the surface and turns brown in deeper regions. It is very heavy and hard to work on.

Thanks for reading!
- blumentopferde

 

[Deezil]

Just a shot-in-the-dark / wild-guess, but possibly.. As with where im located, its hard to grow a suitable red that makes a wine worthy of all the effort - just because there isnt enough sunlight..

Would be curious to know what kind of Growing Degree Days you have there, but im guessing that could be why the whole region is more white-wine-friendly.. Just not enough sunlight..

If you're determined to grow a red, you may have to step off the traditional path

 

[blumentopferde]

I have no problem with leaving traditional paths - as long as I can stay with viniferas ! There should be enough sunlight for reds. Local red grape varieties like Zweigelt or St. Laurent ripe here and reach high levels of sugar but they usually taste untypical and often very bitter. I guess it must be either the soil or the fairly high precipitation.

Unfortunately it is not common to classify wine growing areas in degree days in Austria (actually I don't know of any climatic classification system that would be applied). But if you could tell me the tresholds, I could try to calculate them myself!

EDIT: I just checked the "sunlight hours from April to October". I actually don't know if October is included in this calculation, if not, then it is only 1302 sunlight hours in this area, which is not much and comparable to german wine growing areas.

 

[Bartman]

I don't know much about European grape-growing, but the only decent German red I have ever had (and I have tried several) was Dornfelder. I was told at the local Oktoberfest that it is the only red grape that will grow well in Germany. Since Austria is a little sunnier and warmer than most of Germany, I would think it would do well or better where you are than in Germany.

I would expect you could find some vines of that breed from a local or regional supplier - I doubt any supplier in the US would have even heard of Dornfelder. (after a quick Google search for Dornfelder vines I found this - http://www.doubleavineyards.com/p-685-dornfelder-grafted.aspx in Kentucky!) Have you considered and ruled out the typical French varietals - Cab. Sauv., Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder in Germany), etc.?

Anyway I don't know if we will be much help for you, but we'll try! Besides, your post is a little more intriguing than yet another question about which kit wine is better than another.

 

[blumentopferde]

Thanks for your reply!
I should order some bottles of Dornfelder then. I only had bad experiences with new german grape varieties so far. Blunt wines, which are rich in color but trivial in taste. But maybe the german climate is more to blame for that than the grape variety itself.
I've alreay planted some Syrah to see how they do, but they don't do well, Rondo (a new german Hybrid) does much better but I don't want to stick to that variety as it just doesn't produce wine that could keep up with viniferas (even though quite good for a hybrid).
I've already thought about Pinot Noir, and I'll definitely will get me a few grafts to see how they do, but it seems to be a very demanding variety, which scares me a bit off, I also don't think that it would really fit to the very heavy soil in that area.

It won't be a problem to find a supplier for which grape variety ever. Since Austria is in the European Union I could import grafts from all member countries, which means a huge range of choice.

 

[blumentopferde]

Thanks for the info!
I tried to calculate the GDD:
I went after the Winkler-scale: sums of daily average temperature from April 1 to October 31 minus 50°F.
For the location of my vineyard I only have monthly average values. I tried to extrapolate the GDD by taking the monthly average Temperature minus 50°F multiplied by the number of days of the month. Obvously the result can't be very accurate.
Here it is: 2156,4 GDD

This would be Region 1 according to Winkler and would be similar to the following regions:
Dijon, France; Genève, Switzerland; Roseburg, Oregon.

 

[Bartman]

Did you make any decisions about the grape vines you intend to plant?

 

[blumentopferde]

I'll definitely order some "Blauer Wildbacher" (local red variety) and "Gewürztraminer" (the typical variety of the region) maybe also some "Blauer Portugieser" (austrian red variety), Pinot Noir and Sylvaner (austrian white variety)but I still don't know which clone and which rootstock to choose...

 

[Deezil]

The rootstocks have a bit to do with how you want the plant to grow..

Some rootstocks dig deeeeeeep, some are more shallow and spread out

Some, like 3309, help grapes ripen a bit earlier - helps with where im located as our winters consist of mostly rain & it starts early, we dont have much GDD here, less than / equal to yours

If i remember right, rootstocks take up nutrients out of the soil differently (some pull out more nitrogen, etc etc, than others) which affects how big the canopy of the plants are, on average

Most common rootstocks in this area are 101-14 & 3309C

Here's a chart that has some of the more popular rootstocks on it, with some basic information - how tolerant they are of wet feet, nematodas, phylloxera, etc..

 

[grapeman]

Deezil's formula for growing degree day calculation is flawed.

To figure it, take the daily maximum, add the daily minimum and divide by 2. Take that result and subract 50. This is using base 50. If the daily minimum is below 50, substitute 50 for it.
Example
High 80 degrees, low 60 degrees=
(80+60)/2 = 70. 70 minus 50=20 growing degree days.

 

[Deezil]

Deezil's formula for growing degree day calculation is flawed.

To figure it, take the daily maximum, add the daily minimum and divide by 2. Take that result and subract 50. This is using base 50. If the daily minimum is below 50, substitute 50 for it.
Example
High 80 degrees, low 60 degrees=
(80+60)/2 = 70. 70 minus 50=20 growing degree days.

I must be way more tired that i realize, but ive been on the go for months now..

Grapeman's right - even found an old post where i posted the same formula

 

[blumentopferde]

The rootstocks have a bit to do with how you want the plant to grow..

Some rootstocks dig deeeeeeep, some are more shallow and spread out

Some, like 3309, help grapes ripen a bit earlier - helps with where im located as our winters consist of mostly rain & it starts early, we dont have much GDD here, less than / equal to yours

If i remember right, rootstocks take up nutrients out of the soil differently (some pull out more nitrogen, etc etc, than others) which affects how big the canopy of the plants are, on average

Most common rootstocks in this area are 101-14 & 3309C

Here's a chart that has some of the more popular rootstocks on it, with some basic information - how tolerant they are of wet feet, nematodas, phylloxera, etc..

Thanks for the link!
Do you know any literature or more comprehensive online resources about rootstocks? I found a few lists similar to the one you sent me, but they are very often contradicting. Kober 5BB for example will be described to have low medium or high drought resistence depending on the source...

I still have a few questions on rootstocks, maybe there's somebody out there who can answert them:

1.) What does "wet feet" mean? Does it mean water logging? Do I have to expect water logging in heavy, clayey soils? Even when they are sloped? Or does it only occur on flat grounds?

2.) How about lime resistance? There's no lime in the soil. So can I just ignore the lime resistance or should I prefer rootstocks with low lime resistance?

3.) How about vigor? The soil are fertile and there's plenty of precipitation. Should I prefer rootstocks with low vigor to reduce work for pruning?

4.) And how about drought resistance? There might be several weeks without rain and I have no irrigation system. But generally the climate is humid and the temperatures not excessively high. Do you think that drought resistance might be an issue or should I just ignore it?

5.) How much is the influence on maturity? Let's say, theres a rootstock with early maturity. How many days before average maturity can I expect the grapes to ripe?

6.) Unfortunately I found no information about frost resistance at all. Are there rootstocks varieties that I should avoid in a cool region?

Deezil's formula for growing degree day calculation is flawed.

To figure it, take the daily maximum, add the daily minimum and divide by 2. Take that result and subract 50. This is using base 50. If the daily minimum is below 50, substitute 50 for it.
Example
High 80 degrees, low 60 degrees=
(80+60)/2 = 70. 70 minus 50=20 growing degree days.

That's what I actually did (I went after Winkler) but thanks for the clarification!

 

[blumentopferde]

Some news, some progress:

I've ordered a lot of different clones of the varieties Gewurztraminer, Silvaner, Bouvier, Pinot Noir and Marzemino:

Gewurztaminer: (The main variety of the region. It will be definitely planted):
4x clone ISMA 918 (new, aromatic italian clone)
4x clone VCR6 (another new, aromatic italian clone)
4x clone 1076 (new more elegant, less aromatic french clone)

Silvaner (originally Austrian white variety which is widespread in Germany, it makes a neutral, elegant wine and will be planted in the more shady places):
4x clone Wu 01-15 (new german clone with loose clusters and reduced yields)
4x clone Wu 03-18 (new german clone with reduced clusters, reduced yields and higher than average acidity levels)
4x clone St-25 (= Blauer Silvaner, old mutation with blue berries , maybe even the forefather of the widespread "gruner Silvaner")

Bouvier(very early ripening variety which is said to come from Slowenia and which is relatively widespread in Austria and Switzerland, and usually used for new wine. It will compete with Silvaner on the shady spots):
4x clone ME84 (german standard clone)

Pinot Noir: I'm curious how this will work out, climeate-wise it should be more than fine, but soil-wise it could be less than optimal, as Pinot Noir is said to make the best wines on limestone, and in this area there is no limestone at all!)
4x clone FR 1801 (new german clone with relatively high yields, high sugar levels and lower than average sensitivity to Botrytis)
4x clone FR 943 (new french premium clone with average yields)
4x clone FR 828 (another relatively new french premium clone with average yields)
4x clone Frank Pinot (german premium clone with very low yields)

Marzemino (red variety from Northern Italy, which produces rather thin reds, similar to Pinot Noir. It will compete with Pinot Noir for the role of the red variety)
4x clone ISMA 353
4x clone VCR3 (both are relatively new, aromatic italian clones)

The idea is to plant one row with many different varieties and clones and see which of them do best. What doesn't do well will be eliminated, what does well, will stay. In the end I want to reduce the varieties to 3 different clones: one Traminer, one more acidic white and one red. Maybe I will add one more red in the future. I'd like to try Pinotage (very hard to find in Europe) or Blauer Wildbacher (local red variety) as well.

There's a lot of work awaiting me in spring. The trellis system has to be renewed and dozens of grapes to be planted. Luckily I found a man in the region who has a small excavator and will help me with that - for the price of a few hundret Euros - but still better than working my arse off with a spade!

 

[blumentopferde]

a few updates:
At the moment I refurbish and clean the cellar that will be used for wine making. It is quite wet and full of mold so I came up with with hard chemistry. As I only have one day per week time for my wineyard this will still take two weeks until its done.

The next thing to do is to assemble the trellis system. Today I ordered a small auger. I hope it will do it's job right, it is just not fun to dig 60 plant holes plus 20 holes for posts with a spade, especially on a soil as dense and heavy as in my wineyard! This week I will order the locust posts and the rest (wires etc.) will be ordered short before planting.

I found another guy who will help me with the pergola. Yes, I've decided to construct a small pergola on a place where there's always been one before. This will cost some money but it is necessary if I want to have this done before spring...

 

[blumentopferde]

One more update:
I've been a bit too enthusiastic about planting this year and ordered too many vines. I could have dismissed some of them but I decided to grow the grapes in narrow distances instead.
I'll plant the grapes in a distance of about 2 feet and will let them grow higher than usual for compensation. How high I don't know yet. My grapes are forming a fence around the property so there's no limitation!

Planting in narrow distances has become quite popular in Europe so I gave it a try. It should work out fine with the Pinot-varieties, but not so much with Gewurztraminer, which I will plant at larger distances...

 

[blumentopferde]

My wineyard is emerging slowly.

First of all I want to reconstruct the rows that are framing the property.
They haven't been cultivated since more than 20 years and looked accordingly:

This image was taken two years ago before the old vines were cut down. The posts were tilted, the wires twisted and the vines grew completely wild. Btw: This little tree on the right was ivy!

This image was taken after the clearance.

Most trunks of the old vines were damaged by frost, many even down to the ground. Almost all of the old vines showed Esca-Symptoms:

I cut all the trunks down, close over the grafting point, and luckily some came up again (sorry, no pictures taken). I don't know yet which varieties the old vines are. Probably some of them will turn out to be rootstock varieties

Last week I removed all the old posts and wires and rammed the first 5 Posts into the earth. 9 more will follow, pictures will follow too!

I'm also going to reconstruct a pergola that has once been around the house. It should be kept simple as I don't want to engage in welding and concreting.

That's the sketch for the system:

It's supposed to be constructed solely from wood, screws ans wires.

This was just the beginning. The rows and the Pergola still have to be set up, the vines will arrive at the beginning of April, the cellar still waits for a painting. So lots of work in the wait...

I also digged a bit into austrian law and I figured out that I am only allowed to plant 500m² (= ~0.125 acres) and that I am not allowed to sell or even serve my self-produced wine as long as I have no permission for wine production. And getting a permission will be quite hard if not impossible. But hey, 500m² should be totally fine for the beginning and I can still struggle with the authorities later ;D

Since spring is coming and time is pressing, you'll see a lot of updates in the near future, so stay tuned!

 

[blumentopferde]

This thread might seem dead, but there's been a lot going on behind the scenes:

I received the grafted rootstocks, which I ordered from many different nurseries all over Europe between December and June. I planted them all into platic "pottles" immediately after arrival and stored them in the basement. That worked out quite fine, except from one Gewürztraminer all vines sprouted in spring.

Here you can see some of the remaining vines that still wait to be planted:

I actually wanted to plant them as early as possible (which would have been may because of the long winter) but there was no chance to do so as the site was not yet prepared.

I finally had the opportunity for planting 2 weeks ago. I never expected it to be so much work! It took me a whole afternoon just to get 12 vines into the ground! So there is still half of the vines waiting to get planted. And then there's still the trellis system to be set up.

Here are some photos of the planted vines:

Here you can see the Pinot Noirs. In the background you can see the vineyard of my neighbour.
I left the free space for a few Syrah vines that I planted 2 years ago but now want to relocate into this row. I will wait for autumn to do that as I think it is more safe to relocate a dormant vine.
As you can see from the planting staffs I was very much in a hurry. It just seemed impossible to get them into the soil in straight angle, mostly because they were all skewed from the long time they were lying around outside...

Here another picture from the same row. In between there are some vines in very narrow distances. These are the vines that will be relocated! The pile of stones will hopefully disappear within the next month!

Here's the lowest part of that row. The vines planted there are mostly Marzemino (northern italian red variety). As you can see this is going to be a fence that will run around part of the property. On the right side of the picture you can see a few of the remaining old vines that were planted about 50 years ago! They look young because I cut the stems very low for regeneration (They had symptoms of Esca)

Here you can see the rest of the property outlines that still have to be replanted. On the left you can see a few of the old vines, on the foot of the slope there are a few blueberries, raspberries, and redcurrants and in the background you can see the vineyard of another neighbour.

To be continued...

 

[mgmarty]

You have been busy. What a beautiful site!

 

[blumentopferde]

And the story continues...

The Gewurztraminer (left side) and Blauer Silvaner (front side) have been planted.

The Bouviers also found their place

So did the Silvaner vines (notice: I reiceived grafted rootstocks with high stems)

I figured out that I still have space for 10 more vines! So the story continues...

 

[Deezil]

I still have a few questions on rootstocks, maybe there's somebody out there who can answert them:

1.) What does "wet feet" mean? Does it mean water logging? Do I have to expect water logging in heavy, clayey soils? Even when they are sloped? Or does it only occur on flat grounds?

2.) How about lime resistance? There's no lime in the soil. So can I just ignore the lime resistance or should I prefer rootstocks with low lime resistance?

3.) How about vigor? The soil are fertile and there's plenty of precipitation. Should I prefer rootstocks with low vigor to reduce work for pruning?

4.) And how about drought resistance? There might be several weeks without rain and I have no irrigation system. But generally the climate is humid and the temperatures not excessively high. Do you think that drought resistance might be an issue or should I just ignore it?

5.) How much is the influence on maturity? Let's say, theres a rootstock with early maturity. How many days before average maturity can I expect the grapes to ripe?

6.) Unfortunately I found no information about frost resistance at all. Are there rootstocks varieties that I should avoid in a cool region?

Sorry nobody (I) never answered any of this

1 - Yep, wet-feet is basically water logging or the ability of your vines to "sit in a swamp" persay

2 - If theres no lime in the soil, I would think that the lime resistance of the variety wouldnt matter a whole lot.. Resistance wouldnt hurt, but its not like you're going to have a flashflood of lime from some odd direction

3 - Some do, or they'll choose something with medium or high vigor, then split the canopy in something like a Lyre system.. Can pull a somewhat larger crop, without losing too much terrior, when its done with care and balance

4 - Drought resistance is a big-one for me personally.. I wont have much a irrigation system myself and I'm probably going to see more/worse dry spells than you, but I would have definitely considered it

5 - C3309 is said to influence ripening by 2-3 weeks (earlier) although I'm not sure about many others.. It's a noticable difference though

6 - This, I'm unsure of

I know its a bit late for all this as you've already made the purchases and stuck them in the ground but I thought I should toss my 2-cents out there anywho..

It looks beautiful, you've done a great job. Hopefully you'll keep us updated as the years go so we can see how it comes into bearing age and hopefully pull some crops

"Pics, or it didnt happen!"