White Salmon Riesling

[crushday]

This will be my fourth vintage of making an off-dry Riesling. My process for the first three attempts has been this:

1. Allow the wine to ferment dry
2. Store in bulk and let time clear and degas for 6 months
3. Rack, add sorbate, back sweeten (simple syrup) to taste and store in bulk for 3-4 more months
4. Filter (2 micron) and bottle

I've been happy with each of these wines and my sweet preference lies squarely in the middle of completely dry and a typical commercially made off-dry wine.

In a couple of weeks I'll be getting 20 gallons of frozen juice (2022 White Salmon Vineyard) from the Columbia Basin.

My process this time will be slightly different. I don't want to use sorbate and instead of simple syrup to sweeten, use some of the unfermented juice.

Without the use of sorbate, I'm concerned fermentation will kick off again when I add the juice to sweeten it up.

Options include:

1. Refrigerate/freeze the wine to "kill" the yeast - there seems to be conflicting reports that this is even viable or reliable
2. Slam it with kMeta to "kill" the yeast - I'm a 'less is more' guy which is why I don't want to use sorbate and, don't want to over sulfite the wine - and, would this even work?
3. Filter 0.2 -0.45 to strain out any yeast - this is expensive and requires equipment I don't have

How do I make an off-dry wine without the use of sorbate?

 

[ChuckD]

I don’t think freezing or k-meta will reliably kill the yeast. @Rice_Guy swears by aging for at least 9 months to make sure the yeasties are dead. I have back sweetened several wines that were aged for 11 months or more with no sorbate and no issues.

 

[Rocktop]

Following…
I did the exact same thing with my PN rose this winter. Reserved about half a gallon of the fresh juice. I did the research you are doing now and in the end used sorbate. The super chilling techniques had mixed reviews. The best solution of course was to sterile filter but as you note expensive setup for home wine making.

ps the Rose turned out fabulous and cleared beautifully.

RT

 

[winemaker81]

1. Refrigerate/freeze the wine to "kill" the yeast - there seems to be conflicting reports that this is even viable or reliable

Freezing wine damages the wine, and it's not likely to kill the yeast.

2. Slam it with kMeta to "kill" the yeast - I'm a 'less is more' guy which is why I don't want to use sorbate and, don't want to over sulfite the wine - and, would this even work?

Adding enough K-meta to kill the yeast may make it undrinkable.

3. Filter 0.2 -0.45 to strain out any yeast - this is expensive and requires equipment I don't have

If you'll make enough wine over the years and/or have people to share costs, it may be worth it.


I just bottled a gallon of Elderberry that bulk aged 13 months, using no sorbate. I trust @Rice_Guy's statement on yeast dying after 9 months, but had to verify it myself. I honestly expect no problems with the wine.

If you add fresh juice, you will have to either use sorbate or sterile filter, as it will contain live yeast. Another thought is to pasteurize the juice, e.g., heat it just enough to kill the yeast (120 F?). I have no idea what that will do to the aroma, and possibly the flavor, so you'll want to research that tactic.

If it were me, I'd bulk age 10 months (which you're going to do anyway), backsweeten with sugar, bulk age another month, check sugar levels, then bottle.

 

[crushday]

If it were me, I'd bulk age 10 months (which you're going to do anyway), backsweeten with sugar, bulk age another month, check sugar levels, then bottle.

Bryan,

This is solid advice. Perhaps I'll try both methods as I'll have enough wine for a substantive comparison.

 

[crushday]

I'll documenting the whole process with detailed notes and pictures.

 

[Dwerth]

Aside from filtering / sorbating / aging, the only other method (of which I am aware) is LTLT (low temp, long time) pasteurization of the wine using something similar to sous-vide.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* Freezing will stress the yeast population but not kill it. Ex if you go to your grocery store you will find bread dough which is thaw > proof > bake. ,,, Frozen yeast is an industry standard today. All that said the problem yeast have is the freeze > thaw > freeze > thaw. If your intent is to kill yeast you could run a hundred freeze thaw cycles. ??two hundred?
* adding juice back is a standard technique. The risk is that you have some wild yeast that would restart fermentation. As suggested above Sous-vide is an excellent technique to kill yeast. Looking at the OP I was going to suggest a kill step similar to cider on the grape. Ex 45 min/ 65C product temp. This isn't a well defined science since wine is a multi-variable preservation system. The killing yeast also works at 40C but would take longer (see if Sous-vide has a time temp) ,, or you could overdo the two liters used for back sweetening with SO2 or you could drop the pH below 2.8 or you could use high pressure or you could pump through a UV light treatment etc etc. ,,, and a little pH as 3.0 makes the temp more effective etc etc. Industry has standards based on trial an error where you only have one shot.
* Your kill is a numbers game. If you have decided to filter, the filteration step reduces the yeast population, meaning less live yeast to remove, meaning that any carboy treatment is more efficient, and any sous-vide at 35C (basically the max for a Lallemand yeast) is more efficient.
* I have done seven months 20C basement and then bottle for a contest,,, AND had some refermentation.
* I am not aware of freezing damaging wine. Yes I am aware that freezing will cause formation of fine bitartrate crystals and hovering at 29 to 32F will cause large crystals that are easier to remove.
* the effectiveness of K sorbate is in combination with SO2 and % alcohol and pH ,,,,, they work better together. Wine is a multivariable preservative system.
* yeast are fairly easy to kill. ,,, and food poisoning won't be an issue once you are under pH 4.0 with over 5% ABV, ,,,, which is why recipes want a short lag phase.

 

[ChuckD]

@winemaker81 @Rice_Guy good catch on the wild yeast. I was thinking traditional back sweetening with sugar!

 

[heatherd]

This will be my fourth vintage of making an off-dry Riesling. My process for the first three attempts has been this:

1. Allow the wine to ferment dry
2. Store in bulk and let time clear and degas for 6 months
3. Rack, add sorbate, back sweeten (simple syrup) to taste and store in bulk for 3-4 more months
4. Filter (2 micron) and bottle

I've been happy with each of these wines and my sweet preference lies squarely in the middle of completely dry and a typical commercially made off-dry wine.

In a couple of weeks I'll be getting 20 gallons of frozen juice (2022 White Salmon Vineyard) from the Columbia Basin.

My process this time will be slightly different. I don't want to use sorbate and instead of simple syrup to sweeten, use some of the unfermented juice.

Without the use of sorbate, I'm concerned fermentation will kick off again when I add the juice to sweeten it up.

Options include:

1. Refrigerate/freeze the wine to "kill" the yeast - there seems to be conflicting reports that this is even viable or reliable
2. Slam it with kMeta to "kill" the yeast - I'm a 'less is more' guy which is why I don't want to use sorbate and, don't want to over sulfite the wine - and, would this even work?
3. Filter 0.2 -0.45 to strain out any yeast - this is expensive and requires equipment I don't have

How do I make an off-dry wine without the use of sorbate?

I would use sorbate with the juice.

 

[winemaker81]

I am not aware of freezing damaging wine. Yes I am aware that freezing will cause formation of fine bitartrate crystals and hovering at 29 to 32F will cause large crystals that are easier to remove.

Search on freezing wine; there's some research on it.

My experience in this is unfortunately practical. Following a winery tour, a friend left a case in his back seat overnight, and it froze. Not hard enough to break the bottles, but it turned the wine to slush. The wine turned nasty -- I had several bottles of the same wine, and mine was good for months (until consumed). His was forever nasty.

But it was alcohol, so he and a few other guys drank it anyway.

 

[MiBor]

Would glycerin work to make an off-dry or semi-sweet wine? Glycerin is sweet but not fermentable, so you won't have to use sorbate. It also enhances the mouthfeel of a wine.

I believe @winemaker81 posted about it saying he uses 1/2oz/gal on his wines or something like that. I used it too and didn't like the initial taste, but after a few months the wine balanced itself out and kept the hint of sweetness without the initial artificial aftertaste...

 

[winemaker81]

Would glycerin work to make an off-dry or semi-sweet wine? Glycerin is sweet but not fermentable, so you won't have to use sorbate. It also enhances the mouthfeel of a wine.

I believe @winemaker81 posted about it saying he uses 1/2oz/gal on his wines or something like that. I used it too and didn't like the initial taste, but after a few months the wine balanced itself out and kept the hint of sweetness without the initial artificial aftertaste...

IME, glycerin doesn't produce enough of an effect to call the wine off-dry, and definitely not semi-sweet. I use it because it adds body and smooth rough flavors, such as oak. I've used as much as 1 oz/1 US gallon on heavily oaked wines, but typically use 1/2 to 2/3 oz.

I added 1 oz/gallon to a 2019 wine, bottling a few without. At the 2.5 year mark, I opened one of the untreated bottles and it was undrinkable -- VERY harsh and coarse from oak. Everyone who tried the glycerin wine loved it. YMMV.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Would glycerin work to make an off-dry or semi-sweet wine? Glycerin is sweet but not fermentable, so you won't have to use sorbate....

to generate a flavor similar to a 1.000 wine would take a lot, not very practical.
The last not fermentable sweet I used was xylitol, at about 2/3 the power of sugar. Erythritol is worth looking at. Aspartame is the most natural sweet I have played with but since wine is an acidic solution I would blend as with xylitol.

 

[CDrew]

So from my limited perspective, I just would not use sorbate. So it's sterile filtered or dry. I made a Riesling like this dry and my wife was not a huge fan. I like it though. So how to sweeten? We ended up adding a small amount of simple syrup just before serving the Riesling. That totally works and is good. I don't trust the yeast to be dormant or that other yeasts don't re-initiate fermentation.

I think most wineries sterile filter in this situation-any chance a local winery could help you out?

 

[vinny]

This will be my fourth vintage of making an off-dry Riesling. My process for the first three attempts has been this:

1. Allow the wine to ferment dry
2. Store in bulk and let time clear and degas for 6 months
3. Rack, add sorbate, back sweeten (simple syrup) to taste and store in bulk for 3-4 more months
4. Filter (2 micron) and bottle

I've been happy with each of these wines and my sweet preference lies squarely in the middle of completely dry and a typical commercially made off-dry wine.

In a couple of weeks I'll be getting 20 gallons of frozen juice (2022 White Salmon Vineyard) from the Columbia Basin.

My process this time will be slightly different. I don't want to use sorbate and instead of simple syrup to sweeten, use some of the unfermented juice.

Without the use of sorbate, I'm concerned fermentation will kick off again when I add the juice to sweeten it up.

Options include:

1. Refrigerate/freeze the wine to "kill" the yeast - there seems to be conflicting reports that this is even viable or reliable
2. Slam it with kMeta to "kill" the yeast - I'm a 'less is more' guy which is why I don't want to use sorbate and, don't want to over sulfite the wine - and, would this even work?
3. Filter 0.2 -0.45 to strain out any yeast - this is expensive and requires equipment I don't have

How do I make an off-dry wine without the use of sorbate?

I used a buon vino and a sterile pad of .5 micron. I back sweetened and 3 weeks later there was no renewed activity. Unfortunately the filter pad tainted the wine so I can't recommend you use this, but I can attest that the .5 micron worked.

I have since filtered using my AIO and a filter housing as Steve demonstrates on his site.


This link has a .2 micron filter. I found some that are hospital grade absolute .2 micron filter for a reasonable cost, but couldn't access the company site from Canada.

The whole filter setup would be less than a $100 to go this route.

https://www.amazon.com/Micron-Filte...=home-garden&sprefix=2+mic,garden,395&sr=1-12

 

[crushday]

I used a buon vino and a sterile pad of .5 micron. I back sweetened and 3 weeks later there was no renewed activity. Unfortunately the filter pad tainted the wine so I can't recommend you use this, but I can attest that the .5 micron worked.

I have since filtered using my AIO and a filter housing as Steve demonstrates on his site.

View attachment 100905
This link has a .2 micron filter. I found some that are hospital grade absolute .2 micron filter for a reasonable cost, but couldn't access the company site from Canada.

The whole filter setup would be less than a $100 to go this route.

https://www.amazon.com/Micron-Filte...=home-garden&sprefix=2+mic,garden,395&sr=1-12

Vinny, thanks for weighing in. My volume and fleet of plastic tanks prohibit me from using Steve's set up. Right now I'm leaning toward the time/filter strategy. I'm not going to be in any hurry to get this Riesling bottled.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in helping me find a solution. I'm confirmed to pick up the frozen pails on May 17.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Right now I'm leaning toward the time/filter strategy.

Time is definitely your friend... I know of one (commercial) winemaker who does no filtering or fining and turns out very nice white wines (I think they are dry though?)

I like the idea of fltering, but think that filtering a wine with residual sugar will be tough. Not only does your filtration setup have to be sterile (including the post-filter hoses and destination tank), but your bottling operation should be sterile as well. Commercial wineries can do this with steam treatment, but that's not really practical for home winemakers. I'll be interested to see how it works out if you go this route as I'm still deciding whether to invest in filtration myself.

 

[vinny]

Vinny, thanks for weighing in. My volume and fleet of plastic tanks prohibit me from using Steve's set up. Right now I'm leaning toward the time/filter strategy. I'm not going to be in any hurry to get this Riesling bottled.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in helping me find a solution. I'm confirmed to pick up the frozen pails on May 17.

 

[Rice_Guy]

. Following a winery tour, a friend left a case in his back seat overnight, and it froze. Not hard enough to break the bottles, but it turned the wine to slush. The wine turned nasty -- I had several bottles of the same wine, and mine was good for months (until consumed). His was forever nasty.

I am curious what nasty means.
At this point I tried a wild grape which turned to slush and yielded a sludge. Then a Marquette red which solidified and when thawed after a week yielded a fine sand, but tasted good.