Wild Fermentation Is the Sexiest, Least Understood Technique in Winemaking

[pgentile]

Had no idea any of these non-sacc yeasts were available commercially. FrootZen, Concerto and Prelude. Interesting.

So the process would be no k-meta, pitch Prelude after crush? Then 1 to 3 days pitch Andante or other sacc yeast?

Any nutrients needed for Prelude or non-saccs? And what about MLF on the Cab Franc?

Will have to do some reading, but liking the sound of this.

 

[sour_grapes]

Would you target only high-Brix must? If I am understanding this correctly, their spec sheet says you can lose up to ~3% ABV (or 6 Brix or 0.025 SG) to the non-AF yeasties.

 

[sour_grapes]

I think I was misunderstanding it. I think it does produce alcohol, but it just has a low tolerance.

 

[4score]

Had no idea any of these non-sacc yeasts were available commercially. FrootZen, Concerto and Prelude. Interesting.

So the process would be no k-meta, pitch Prelude after crush? Then 1 to 3 days pitch Andante or other sacc yeast?

Any nutrients needed for Prelude or non-saccs? And what about MLF on the Cab Franc?

Will have to do some reading, but liking the sound of this.

I'm not sure about the nutrient requirements....good question. I do know that it is "complementary" to MLF. And yes, this non-sacc yeast would take the place of the normal SO2 application at the front end. It's very intriguing isn't it?

 

[4score]

I think I was misunderstanding it. I think it does produce alcohol, but it just has a low tolerance.

Correct....a one or two brix conversion but it dies quickly.

 

[4score]

Kind of dry....but still interesting:

 

[pgentile]

I'm not sure about the nutrient requirements....good question. I do know that it is "complementary" to MLF. And yes, this non-sacc yeast would take the place of the normal SO2 application at the front end. It's very intriguing isn't it?

I have stopped doing the S02 up front the last several batches anyway to help MLF. I like the idea of influencing what takes hold early on in this way. Although someday I will do a wild ferment from start to finish.

 

[Zintrigue]

I've had my fill of wild yeasts for one lifetime. I'll stick to lab developed yeasts that give me drinkable results and un-ruined equipment, thank you.

 

[4score]

I've had my fill of wild yeasts for one lifetime. I'll stick to lab developed yeasts that give me drinkable results and un-ruined equipment, thank you.

These non-sacc yeasts ARE lab developed.

 

[mainshipfred]

I too find this intriguing but a little unclear. Do they consider the non sac lab produced yeasts wild or am I missing the point?

 

[AkTom]

From the very little I know, it sounds like it’s a domesticated yeast. Developed in the lab. All yeast started out wild. That’s all I have for you. I need to get started on my first cup of coffee.

 

[Zintrigue]

These non-sacc yeasts ARE lab developed.

Color me confused. Doesn't that make it *not* wild? I mean if it's lab developed then you're still getting your yeast from the pet store instead of picking up a stray and hoping it doesn't bite you.

 

[pgentile]

Color me confused. Doesn't that make it *not* wild? I mean if it's lab developed then you're still getting your yeast from the pet store instead of picking up a stray and hoping it doesn't bite you.

Derived from the wild, isolated and bred, just like traditional yeast and MLB. So yeah not really wild anymore. But I like the concept. Although now I'm going to be doing 3 yeast/bacteria additions on most reds.

 

[mainshipfred]

After doing some limited research it appears we may have taken @4score's OP out of context. Maybe because of the thread it is in but it really has nothing to do with wild or natural fermentation. I believe it has to do with known flavor profiles and enhancements that can be acheived by using engineered non sac yeast strains. I would considering using it but from what I can tell it is sold in 500g packages which I think would rule out the vast majority of us.

 

[pgentile]

I would considering using it but from what I can tell it is sold in 500g packages which I think would rule out the vast majority of us.

Didn't explore the packaging aspect, but yes that would be prohibitive for most of us.

 

[mainshipfred]

Derived from the wild, isolated and bred, just like traditional yeast and MLB. So yeah not really wild anymore. But I like the concept. Although now I'm going to be doing 3 yeast/bacteria additions on most reds.

I'm a firm believer in multiple yeasts but have yet to try multiple bacteria.

 

[pgentile]

I'm a firm believer in multiple yeasts but have yet to try multiple bacteria.

What I mean by "3 yeast/bacteria additions on most reds" is something like: 1. non-sacc yeast at crush 2. Sacc yeast 24-48 after 3. MLB 24 -48 hours after sacc yeast.

I'm not adding so2 after crush anymore and until the Sacc yeast gets going, there has to be some type of wild yeast/bacteria going on. The non-sacc yeast would influence that part of the process. But as you state packaging size for the micro winery might not make economic sense.

 

[mainshipfred]

What I mean by "3 yeast/bacteria additions on most reds" is something like: 1. non-sacc yeast at crush 2. Sacc yeast 24-48 after 3. MLB 24 -48 hours after sacc yeast.

I'm not adding so2 after crush anymore and until the Sacc yeast gets going, there has to be some type of wild yeast/bacteria going on. The non-sacc yeast would influence that part of the process. But as you state packaging size for the micro winery might not make economic sense.

I see, didn't read it that way. Since last fall I never used less then 3 different yeast in different buckets per batch (a bit more work). Not the same as non sac but I would think it is a similar concept.

 

[Ajmassa]

I'm a firm believer in multiple yeasts but have yet to try multiple bacteria.

I wanted to use multiple bacteria this spring- but in the end it became a hassle. And more prep , more time, more equipment, more to keep organized, and more money spent. The natural sacc and multiple yeast/bacteria ideas are all awesome. But sometimes I can get carried away with all these ideas to experiment.
I had fun fun playing with the d80/d254 combo. I cant wait to barrel age and blend. And experimenting with oak in primary and maybe an EM one day. Other than that I plan to keep it simple. Still a lot to learn. I just wanna make some wine that tastes good!. Winery is starting to look more like a mad scientists lab! This fall my plan is back to basics. No BS. Straight varietal. Maybe 2 yeasts again. But that’s it. My love for winemaking heavily outweighs the time I’m able to devote.

 

[mainshipfred]

My love for winemaking heavily outweighs the time I’m able to devote. [/QUOTE]

Don't forget you had a lot going on in the spring with your move. Plus I have a feeling you with find the time.