Wine in a bag

[plato25]

Hi all

I wonder if, instead of bottling) anyone has tries filling wine bags, say 2-10 litre bags?

I can understand that for long maturing bottles are better but for short term and wine to drink after a few months surely bags are an alternative?

I would be interested to heard thoughts including problems with this.

 

[Rice_Guy]

An industry point of view;
* I have some, they will actually hold more than the rated volume and you can squeeze the bag to create the shape you want.
* they are extremely useful in a winery for holding wine which us used for topping off.
* you specify short term instead of long term, retail packages will have a two year best by date. I have used them as a variable capacity second racking carboy, it works, but you need to be careful racking off the fine lees, The spout which is welded onto the plastic takes a standard glass carboy cork, the spout needs to be supported if you fit an air lock.
* I like metalized film as an extremely low oxygen transmission container. The clear EvOH bags are made up of multiple layers which create resistance to alcohol/ oxygen/ meltable spout sealing surface/ temperature resistant stretch/ visibility racking off lees.
* they are food grade, they are UN approved for emergency stockpiles of foods, they have a lower footprint than metal or glass, ,,, AND cost less
* compared to glass they look cheap but in retail packaging have neat features as a silicate layer is transparent and a retort temperature barrier so one can have printed product graphics as well as see what is inside the pouch
* a typical wine bag needs to be protected from punctures. Some of the UN approved grade will stand by themselves.
* retail adaptations are out so one can carry wine in a shoulder bag to the picnic
* cleaning/ reusing isn’t the best, they have a seam or a gusset which you can’t get at. I wash as with one step, rinse with water a few times and then rinse/ store with an ounce of grain alcohol
* the spout is never in a corner, it is always welded onto a flat surface

“Family wine” has been an issue for centuries. Old Italian technology would be a ceramic crock with a spout, a round board floating on the crock and olive oil layered on top for a flexible oxygen barrier. Bottles with corks are relatively modern. My guess is great grandpa scratched his head and asked if something as expensive as glass was worth it.
You will find more products in multi wall plastics in the future, they work.

 

[plato25]

An industry point of view;
* I have some, they will actually hold more than the rated volume and you can squeeze the bag to create the shape you want.
* they are extremely useful in a winery for holding wine which us used for topping off.
* you specify short term instead of long term, retail packages will have a two year best by date. I have used them as a variable capacity second racking carboy, it works, but you need to be careful racking off the fine lees, The spout which is welded onto the plastic takes a standard glass carboy cork, the spout needs to be supported if you fit an air lock.
* I like metalized film as an extremely low oxygen transmission container. The clear EvOH bags are made up of multiple layers which create resistance to alcohol/ oxygen/ meltable spout sealing surface/ temperature resistant stretch/ visibility racking off lees.
* they are food grade, they are UN approved for emergency stockpiles of foods, they have a lower footprint than metal or glass, ,,, AND cost less
* compared to glass they look cheap but in retail packaging have neat features as a silicate layer is transparent and a retort temperature barrier so one can have printed product graphics as well as see what is inside the pouch
* a typical wine bag needs to be protected from punctures. Some of the UN approved grade will stand by themselves.
* retail adaptations are out so one can carry wine in a shoulder bag to the picnic
* cleaning/ reusing isn’t the best, they have a seam or a gusset which you can’t get at. I wash as with one step, rinse with water a few times and then rinse/ store with an ounce of grain alcohol
* the spout is never in a corner, it is always welded onto a flat surface

“Family wine” has been an issue for centuries. Old Italian technology would be a ceramic crock with a spout, a round board floating on the crock and olive oil layered on top for a flexible oxygen barrier. Bottles with corks are relatively modern. My guess is great grandpa scratched his head and asked if something as expensive as glass was worth it.
You will find more products in multi wall plastics in the future, they work.

Whow! That really is a comprehensive and useful reply.

Thanks

 

[Rice_Guy]

I should add bottles are not better, different.

Bottles cost a lot/ are expensive to ship. Natural cork leaks oxygen to the tune of 5mg per year. Aluminum caps with Saran are better for long term storage. Bottles have been around a few hundred years so the related tools as Italian floor corker are common. Plastics are new so one may have the shop make tools for testing. Bulk wine stores better than individual serving containers.

 

[plato25]

Thx. Sounds right. I didn’t know about aluminium caps though. That surprises me

 

[winemanden]

Been using bag in the box for a long time. I fill them up come bottling time and just use them for day to day drinking. I've not noticed any off effects from them, probably because we empty them quickly. It helps stop the good mature stuff in the bottles from being drunk too soon.

 

[plato25]

Thx. That was my thinking too. Bottles for long storage and bags for day to day drinking. This though has been shot down in flames by replies I have had

 

[Wayne Freeman]

Been using bag in the box for a long time. I fill them up come bottling time and just use them for day to day drinking. I've not noticed any off effects from them, probably because we empty them quickly. It helps stop the good mature stuff in the bottles from being drunk too soon.

That's exactly what I do. Several years ago I bought a set that included three mylar bags, spouts and a small wastebasket-shaped thing with a hole in one side that accommodates the spouts. Been using that set ever since. Nothing lost to spoilage.

 

[Darrell Hawley]

Bags are great when on the move, especially when down by the pool and no glass allowed. Fits well in any cooler.

 

[Wayne Freeman]

An industry point of view;
* I have some, they will actually hold more than the rated volume and you can squeeze the bag to create the shape you want.
* they are extremely useful in a winery for holding wine which us used for topping off.
* you specify short term instead of long term, retail packages will have a two year best by date. I have used them as a variable capacity second racking carboy, it works, but you need to be careful racking off the fine lees, The spout which is welded onto the plastic takes a standard glass carboy cork, the spout needs to be supported if you fit an air lock.
* I like metalized film as an extremely low oxygen transmission container. The clear EvOH bags are made up of multiple layers which create resistance to alcohol/ oxygen/ meltable spout sealing surface/ temperature resistant stretch/ visibility racking off lees.
* they are food grade, they are UN approved for emergency stockpiles of foods, they have a lower footprint than metal or glass, ,,, AND cost less
* compared to glass they look cheap but in retail packaging have neat features as a silicate layer is transparent and a retort temperature barrier so one can have printed product graphics as well as see what is inside the pouch
* a typical wine bag needs to be protected from punctures. Some of the UN approved grade will stand by themselves.
* retail adaptations are out so one can carry wine in a shoulder bag to the picnic
* cleaning/ reusing isn’t the best, they have a seam or a gusset which you can’t get at. I wash as with one step, rinse with water a few times and then rinse/ store with an ounce of grain alcohol
* the spout is never in a corner, it is always welded onto a flat surface

“Family wine” has been an issue for centuries. Old Italian technology would be a ceramic crock with a spout, a round board floating on the crock and olive oil layered on top for a flexible oxygen barrier. Bottles with corks are relatively modern. My guess is great grandpa scratched his head and asked if something as expensive as glass was worth it.
You will find more products in multi wall plastics in the future, they work.

Hardware stores in Italy (in Tuscany, at least) sell stainless steel wine containers in many sizes. They're called fustini (singular fustino). Many of the pizzerias have one sitting on the counter. They take them to the local winery of choice to get them filled. I found one in the states, in a small beermaking supply store in Santa Cruz, CA. There is a stainless steel floating lid, as you describe. I've been using mine for 15 years or so by now.

 

[winemaker81]

you specify short term instead of long term, retail packages will have a two year best by date.

Some have a "best by" date of 1 year, and the research I did last year caused me to consider no more than 1 year in a bag. Unlike other containers, the bags are O2 permeable, so caution is advised.

We must be honest with ourselves regarding how long the wine will last. Yeah, I know, for a lot of our membership keeping wine 6 months post-bottling is a trick.

OTOH, I opened a bottle of 2020 second run wine to marinate tonight's dinner -- second run wines are typically consumed within 1 year, and this one is 2.5 years old and still doing fine. For that reason I wouldn't use a bag.

However, for short term use, they are a good choice.

 

[plato25]

One on the best wines, commercial or otherwise, that I have ever drunk was a bilberry wine bottled for 12 years. It was, miraculously, unbeatable. Why? No idea.