WineXpert Winexpert 4wk vs 6wk kits

[Handy Turnip]

I'm curious about the difference the extra 2 weeks makes between the more basic kits and the higher end kits. Obviously the juice is of higher quality, and in higher quantity, but am merely thinking about the time difference.

Both kits will spend c.2 weeks in the fermentation bucket, before racking across the carboy. Both will essentially clear within a few days, but give it a week (or a bit longer to be sure). But then at 4 weeks I can bottle the lower end kit, but have to wait the extra 2 weeks for the higher end kit. What's actually happening in those 2 weeks, and what would be the consequence of bottling at 4 weeks. I mainly do whites which are essentially very drinkable from the start.

Obviously there is no rush and patience is always the key word in wine making, but just am curious. I'm starting a winexpert reserve Albarino, which I'm looking forward to trying (big Albarino fan!) - and on Christmas Eve it'll be 5 weeks. If it tastes good (and that's the key bit obvs), what would be the consequence of bottling a week early and having a couple on Christmas Day.

 

[GaDawg]

I’m about to start a Reserve Californian Luna Bianca Wine Kit. A 6 week kit. After it is ready to bottle I plan to add a few French oak cubes for about 6 weeks. I believe 6 week will get practically all the good out of the oak.
During fermentation I don’t follow the instructions, I go by my S/P readings.

 

[VinesnBines]

I'm curious about the difference the extra 2 weeks makes between the more basic kits and the higher end kits. Obviously the juice is of higher quality, and in higher quantity, but am merely thinking about the time difference.

Both kits will spend c.2 weeks in the fermentation bucket, before racking across the carboy. Both will essentially clear within a few days, but give it a week (or a bit longer to be sure). But then at 4 weeks I can bottle the lower end kit, but have to wait the extra 2 weeks for the higher end kit. What's actually happening in those 2 weeks, and what would be the consequence of bottling at 4 weeks. I mainly do whites which are essentially very drinkable from the start.

Obviously there is no rush and patience is always the key word in wine making, but just am curious. I'm starting a winexpert reserve Albarino, which I'm looking forward to trying (big Albarino fan!) - and on Christmas Eve it'll be 5 weeks. If it tastes good (and that's the key bit obvs), what would be the consequence of bottling a week early and having a couple on Christmas Day.

How about bottling just a few bottles and putting the rest into bulk for a longer period? If this is a 23L kit you can drop it back to a 19L container and have four or five bottles early. Often, I rack down to a smaller container and bottle a few bottles of a batch. It works especially well she I am bottling as much ad 50L or more. I can drop it back to 23L to bulk a little longer and my bottling day is not so long.

 

[winemaker81]

I'm curious about the difference the extra 2 weeks makes between the more basic kits and the higher end kits. Obviously the juice is of higher quality, and in higher quantity, but am merely thinking about the time difference.

IMO it's marketing, e.g., The higher quality wine takes longer because it's higher quality.

The kit wine 4 week timeline works, and AFAIK, there's no technical reason an 8 week kit can't be bottled at the 4 week mark. Clearing is clearing, regardless of how much the kit cost. If you use the included fining agents, it will clear.

OTOH, the quality of the kit DOES affect when it's aged enough to drink. Heavier bodied wines with more tannin and higher ABV take longer to age. A higher end kit typically is heavier bodied, so it needs time.

Will your wine be ready to drink at Christmas? I dunno. That depends on you and what you like. Will that wine be better 6 months later? Yes!

Also keep bottle shock in mind. About half my wines exhibit some form of bottle shock, which goes away in 1 to 8 weeks. I avoid touching a wine for 2 months after bottling. I also do this for wine shipments, as they often exhibit some form of "shock" after rough handling in shipment.

If it were me, I'd let the wine bulk age 3 months and have something else on Christmas Eve. This wine will be perfect for next year's Christmas Eve.

Alternately, if you have a 19 liter carboy, fill that carboy and bottle the remainder. This way most will get bulk aging, but you'll have wine to try.

 

[winemaker81]

How about bottling just a few bottles and putting the rest into bulk for a longer period?

@Handy Turnip, you got the same advice twice at the same time!!

 

[Handy Turnip]

Thanks @winemaker81 @VinesnBines - great advice as always.

Unfortunately I don't have a 19L carboy (only the 23L and 11L), maybe I need to add it to my collection!

Apart from the Apres collection (which I bulk age longer), I tend to only do whites which are generally very good at bottling - in fact we always syphon off a bottle for that evening to sample and they are always good. Don't get me wrong, they all improve and we generally drink them steadily over an 18mth period.

I guess ultimately it comes down to what I've got available (I've got a bit behind recently) and what's tasting good. I've got a recently bottled Viognier batch which needs a bit more time (and is more of an easy drinker for us), and about 7 bottles of a pretty good 7mth old LE Macabeo Sav Blanc batch. The latter is the favourite for Christmas for obviously reasons, but it's not quite as good as some of my previous batches and at Christmas (with so many guests) I'm itching to showcase what I've got.

If at tasting at 5 weeks, the Albarino blows my mind, then I might take a gamble on bottling it then, but it would have to be better than the 7mth old LE, which I can't see happening.

​

 

[winemaker81]

If at tasting at 5 weeks, the Albarino blows my mind, then I might take a gamble on bottling it then, but it would have to be better than the 7mth old LE, which I can't see happening.

Sounds like a good plan.

This is a good time to plan on setting aside a case for next Christmas, and/or starting another kit with the plan that part of it is for next Christmas.

In winemaking, we are always working for the future.

 

[Handy Turnip]

@winemaker81 yes I'm lining up this Albarino for next Christmas.

I've only done a couple of kits over the last year, which wasn't a worry as I thought I had plenty in reserve - unfortunately (as per another thread) finding out my #8 corks weren't keeping my wine beyond 15mths has messed me up!

Am hoping the new #9s will mean I can build up the reserves again!

 

[vinny]

Just to throw another option at you, I'll chime in..

I agree 100% that it's marketing, and it's brilliant. It makes you feel like the extra time will make your more expensive kit all the better. Oooh la laaaa, so fancy!. Who would ever start making wine if it was a 6-8 MONTH kit.

I am like a broken record with this statement, but it's about 3 months after the bottle date that a kit starts to come together. Almost one week to the next, hmmm, that's pretty jaggy (not likely a wine term ), to hey, that's pretty alright.

SO... What I did was split my kits to a 3 gallon carboy and bottle the other half. I was really interested to try my wines. I made it to 3 months after the bottle date because when I tasted them, I didn't like them. Then all of a sudden, I did! You can drink like a fool, or pace yourself and note the progression. I am at about 9 months now and plan to bottle the other 3 gallons any day. I still have some of the first batch to compare bottle aging to bulk. I am setting up a wine pump today and I am not quite sure how this will effect my setup, but I tell you, the difference between 5-6 gallon carboys, and 3? Night and Day.

I can walk around the house all day carrying a 3 gallon, not even gonna try with a 6. I can, but I really don't like even lifting them onto the counter. If the pumps makes transferring easy, then I'll stick with 6's, otherwise I'm gonna stock up on 3 gallon carboys and split everything after primary.

 

[MHSKIBUM]

Thanks @winemaker81 @VinesnBines - great advice as always.

Unfortunately I don't have a 19L carboy (only the 23L and 11L), maybe I need to add it to my collection!

Apart from the Apres collection (which I bulk age longer), I tend to only do whites which are generally very good at bottling - in fact we always syphon off a bottle for that evening to sample and they are always good. Don't get me wrong, they all improve and we generally drink them steadily over an 18mth period.

I guess ultimately it comes down to what I've got available (I've got a bit behind recently) and what's tasting good. I've got a recently bottled Viognier batch which needs a bit more time (and is more of an easy drinker for us), and about 7 bottles of a pretty good 7mth old LE Macabeo Sav Blanc batch. The latter is the favourite for Christmas for obviously reasons, but it's not quite as good as some of my previous batches and at Christmas (with so many guests) I'm itching to showcase what I've got.

If at tasting at 5 weeks, the Albarino blows my mind, then I might take a gamble on bottling it then, but it would have to be better than the 7mth old LE, which I can't see happening.

​

I always cut down the water in the cheaper kits (19l from recommended 23l), add some dry grape skins, or a cup of ,good organic (Sunmaid) raisins or 1 lb. of slightly crushed black table grapes and stems for reds. For whites, I add 1 lb. of slightly crushed green or light purple grapes and stems for whites to give it added body ala skin touch whites that have become popular lately.
I keep the red/black skins in the wine for the entire first ferment. For whites I leave the green skins and stems in for 3-4 days. For light purple grapes, I leave in 1-2 days. It's hard to find table grapes with seeds so I keep the finer stems on the grape skins to gain tannins. By the way, before adding table grapes, make sure you rinse the with a K-Meta solution to kill all the nasties.
I always leave the 4 week kits for at least six weeks to gain added complexity from the lees.
Thereafter I rack the reds for 8-10 months and the whites for 2-3 months before bottling.

 

[GaDawg]

I always cut down the water in the cheaper kits (19l from recommended 23l), add some dry grape skins, or a cup of ,good organic (Sunmaid) raisins or 1 lb. of slightly crushed black table grapes and stems for reds. For whites, I add 1 lb. of slightly crushed green or light purple grapes and stems for whites to give it added body ala skin touch whites that have become popular lately.
I keep the red/black skins in the wine for the entire first ferment. For whites I leave the green skins and stems in for 3-4 days. For light purple grapes, I leave in 1-2 days. It's hard to find table grapes with seeds so I keep the finer stems on the grape skins to gain tannins. By the way, before adding table grapes, make sure you rinse the with a K-Meta solution to kill all the nasties.
I always leave the 4 week kits for at least six weeks to gain added complexity from the lees.
Thereafter I rack the reds for 8-10 months and the whites for 2-3 months before bottling.

I don’t add water based on kit instructions, I add water based on S/G. We can estimate the final S/G so add water based on the alcohol level you want.