Winexpert LE18 thoughts?

[tjgaul]

I would agree with DIYer . . . . if they were counting an F-Pac as additional volume (a bag of sugar) I think that would be deceptive, but a skin pack is much more than that and actually adds volume, flavor and body to the fermentation. If you're at the level of production that you're into the upper end kits, then you likely know what you're getting. Given the choice, I would always go with the kit with skins and gladly pay the few extra dollars.

I think one of the best bargains out there now are the WE World Vineyard kits which are 12L with skins (only 3 offered in this style) and are priced around $80. Great candidates to scale back to 5 gal and get a robust economical wine. I've made the GSM twice. First batch is 18 months old and down to 8 bottles left, second batch is close to a year old and still in the carboy.

 

[DIYer]

I would agree with DIYer . . . . if they were counting an F-Pac as additional volume (a bag of sugar) I think that would be deceptive, but a skin pack is much more than that and actually adds volume, flavor and body to the fermentation. If you're at the level of production that you're into the upper end kits, then you likely know what you're getting. Given the choice, I would always go with the kit with skins and gladly pay the few extra dollars.

I think one of the best bargains out there now are the WE World Vineyard kits which are 12L with skins (only 3 offered in this style) and are priced around $80. Great candidates to scale back to 5 gal and get a robust economical wine. I've made the GSM twice. First batch is 18 months old and down to 8 bottles left, second batch is close to a year old and still in the carboy.

Is "GSM" the Australian Grenache/Shiraz/Mourvedre? If so, I have that one standing by, right to start soon. It will be my second batch from a kit, and first red. I am looking forward to it!

 

[tjgaul]

Is "GSM" the Australian Grenache/Shiraz/Mourvedre? If so, I have that one standing by, right to start soon. It will be my second batch from a kit, and first red. I am looking forward to it!

That's the kit. A couple years back I was buying Cline's Cashmere off the bargain rack which I thought was a Pinot Noir. The 3rd time I got one the guy at the liquor store pointed out that it was actually a GSM (I didn't even know what that meant). I bought this kit trying to replicate that taste. Not the same, but so darn good I bought the 2nd kit as soon as the first one was in the bottle. It's been a hit with most of my friends and family.

 

[DIYer]

That's the kit. A couple years back I was buying Cline's Cashmere off the bargain rack which I thought was a Pinot Noir. The 3rd time I got one the guy at the liquor store pointed out that it was actually a GSM (I didn't even know what that meant). I bought this kit trying to replicate that taste. Not the same, but so darn good I bought the 2nd kit as soon as the first one was in the bottle. It's been a hit with most of my friends and family.
View attachment 55145

Thanks! I bought this one to have a red I can start drinking a bit sooner than the WE Whiskey Barrel Cab/Merlot that's on pre-order (should be shipping soon). That one I plan to age 12-18 months. The GSM I hope to start enjoying after about 6 (of course will save some to age longer for comparison). These are my first batches, so I wanted some I could drink relatively soon, while letting the better kit age.

 

[LouisCKpasteur]

I have the Australian GSM at 6 months right now. Two things, I don't think this kit came with skins, and 2, at six months at least, I thought Vieux Chateau du Roi was better. Your taste of course may vary. And although the Vieux Chateau does not give a varietal breakdown, I have to imagine that it contains at least two of the three GSM.

 

[Wayne Freeman]

On another note, I'm puzzled about the instructions for this Barbarasco kit. Step 1 is, of course, the primary fermentation but Step 2 is "Stablizing and Clearing". What about secondary fermentation? Do they really mean to eliminate the secondary? I've never seen this before.

 

[ras2018]

On another note, I'm puzzled about the instructions for this Barbarasco kit. Step 1 is, of course, the primary fermentation but Step 2 is "Stablizing and Clearing". What about secondary fermentation? Do they really mean to eliminate the secondary? I've never seen this before.

I honestly didn’t even read them, but I think Winexpert expects you to ferment 14 days on the skins and “skip” secondary. I’m going to do an extended maceration for 4 weeks on this one.

 

[1d10t]

On another note, I'm puzzled about the instructions for this Barbarasco kit. Step 1 is, of course, the primary fermentation but Step 2 is "Stablizing and Clearing". What about secondary fermentation? Do they really mean to eliminate the secondary? I've never seen this before.

"If choosing to carboy age wine, top-up with a similar style wine and fit with a solid stopper. Bottle aging is the preferred method."

They seem to dislike carboys.

 

[Johnd]

It’s really not that big of a deal to finish fermentation in your original vessel, lots of folks here have been doing it that way for a long time.

 

[cmason1957]

I think it isn't so much carboys as it is the interference fit of the bung to the opening. That and an empty carboy is asking to be refilled. Someone posted this article on a Facebook page.
https://www.midwestsupplies.com/bot...medium=email&utm_term=Headspace+in+Winemaking

 

[Wayne Freeman]

I honestly didn’t even read them, but I think Winexpert expects you to ferment 14 days on the skins and “skip” secondary. I’m going to do an extended maceration for 4 weeks on this one.

Do you mean 4 weeks in addition to the two week primary fermentation or 4 weeks total?

 

[1d10t]

I've read the ingress of oxygen through the plastic air lock should not be overlooked.

For the home winemaker, if you filter, after completing things like oak additions there might be little to gain from bulk aging and going to bottle probably makes sense. The article make it sound like the wineries skip the barrel aging and go straight to bottle though since it is the 'preferred method'.

"Beyond that, the best place to store wine for aging is inside wine bottles--that's where all the wineries put their vintages to age over time."

I guess it avoids all those expensive, pesky barrels?

 

[tjgaul]

"Beyond that, the best place to store wine for aging is inside wine bottles--that's where all the wineries put their vintages to age over time."

I guess it avoids all those expensive, pesky barrels?

I found those observations to be a little suspect also. Even the full stainless white wine makers bulk age 6 months to a year in the vat. There must be some benefits to bulk aging beyond simply clearing the wine. If the carboy is topped up properly I have to believe that the combination of the surface area exposed to air and the potential inflow of air through the airlock (and around the bung) would still have to be much less than the total of all the headspace in 30 bottles of wine.

I also noticed Tim V's statement regarding the blanketing effect of the CO2 given off during fermentation. The effectiveness of this protection from oxygen has been heavily debated throughout this forum. I won't debate Tim's prowess in the world of kit winemaking, but his advice is often aimed at the novice winemaker and does not promote individual expression in the wine crafting process.

 

[ras2018]

Do you mean 4 weeks in addition to the two week primary fermentation or 4 weeks total?

No. 4 weeks on the skins and then I will head straight to stabilization.

 

[Cellar Vader]

No. 4 weeks on the skins and then I will head straight to stabilization.

I will be conducting my first-ever extended maceration on my LE18 Barbaresco soon. I don't plan to apply any other tweaks...UNLESS you know of one that I MUST try? I'm all ears!

 

[ras2018]

I will be conducting my first-ever extended maceration on my LE18 Barbaresco soon. I don't plan to apply any other tweaks...UNLESS you know of one that I MUST try? I'm all ears!

I’m making some minor tweaks. Swapping the RC-212 for BM 4x4. Extended maceration. I did add simple syrup to 1.09 sg. Other than that I will probably hit this with a little extra medium plus oak during its rest as well as a little TRE.

 

[Cellar Vader]

I’m making some minor tweaks. Swapping the RC-212 for BM 4x4. Extended maceration. I did add simple syrup to 1.09 sg. Other than that I will probably hit this with a little extra medium plus oak during its rest as well as a little TRE.

Yes, I’ve read that BM4x4 is the choice for Italian reds, but have had a tough time finding it in my area. Amazon?

 

[ras2018]

I always have a few on hand from Label Peelers

 

[Johnd]

Yes, I’ve read that BM4x4 is the choice for Italian reds, but have had a tough time finding it in my area. Amazon?

Depends upon the type of grapes on your “Italian” wine, you may find this useful in pairing the yeast and varietal, then you can find and order your yeast. Label peelers, MoreWine, Midwest, etc. carry many strains.

https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf

 

[Cellar Vader]

Depends upon the type of grapes on your “Italian” wine, you may find this useful in pairing the AST and varietal, then you can find and order your yeast. Label peelers, MoreWine, Midwest, etc. carry many strains.

https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf

Thank you Johnd!