ThunderFred
Springfield Illinois
Has anyone tried using xanthan gum to give their wine more body? Before I play around with a small scale test I wanted to see if anyone has experience.
Xanthan Gum
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franc1969
Senior Member
Have you used xanthan gum for anything before? I use it in mixed baking flours as I have to eat gluten free. To be blunt, the odor of xanthan makes me gag every time I open the container. Stuff lives in a nice hermetically sealed fido jar so the smell stays away. Once mixed and wet, I can still smell it slightly, when baked it's gone.
I would never use it near wine.
I would never use it near wine.
ThunderFred
Springfield Illinois
I use it to thicken sauces and dressings. A tiny bit goes a long way. Not sure what it would do in wine. That's why I thought I'd ask before trying it out. If I lose a bottle to bench trials it wouldn't be the end of the world. Just trying to gather data first so I'm not re-inventing the wheel if not necessary.
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Doooo eet!
And let us know.
And let us know.
my lab sample has a slight acetic (vinegar like) smell, the supplier lit describes it as tasteless. Have you tried a new lot? Alternate Supplier?
Would be interesting to try on wine, keep us posted.
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ThunderFred
Springfield Illinois
I'm starting out slow. Given franc1969's feedback, I decided to start out on tap water. I wanted to have a fairly neutral base so I could judge potential off flavors and smells. After all, if it makes things taste bad then there's no reason to continue the experiment.
I started with Bob's Red Mill Xanthan Gum. This is pretty commonly available in health food sections of grocery stores. The water I used came from the tap, city water, not a well. I'm not overly scientific in this first pass. This is more of a proof of concept before moving forward. I mixed 1/8 teaspoon of xanthan gum into 1 cup of water. after vigorous blending, I used an immersion blender for about a minute, I ended up with a thick, goopy kind of paste. Kind of a slimy snot like consistency. Sorry, not the most appetizing description for a food product.
Then I started a bench trial by adding increments of 1/8 teaspoon of the slurry to 1 cup of water. Starting at zero in one cup as a control and then 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8 and one full teaspoon. A little of this stuff goes a long way. My initial reaction is that I wouldn't want to add any more than the 1/8 tsp dose. At some point the mouthfeel becomes unpleasant. Frankly, I was already at that point. In my next iteration of the experiment I need to use a very precise scale to measure very small amounts of xanthan gum for the bench trial.
I didn't notice much of a smell from the slurry. The unmixed powder did have a slight odor. I would describe it as slightly yeasty. It wasn't as noticeable when mixed with water. That said, I used tap water that includes chlorine and who knows what else and it was subject to my sense of smell so it's not a very objective test. I didn't find the smell to be objectionable. I had the same reaction to a taste test. That said, I only tasted a very small amount and it wasn't a prolonged event to I don't know the cumulative effect of drinking it over time.
The last part of the test is letting the samples sit to see if the xanthan gum clumps up or drops out of solution.
Still way more questions than answers. Need to get a precision scale and keep trying on water before moving to wine. Frankly, I’m not really sure the juice is worth the squeeze but I’m already half way down the rabbit hole so I guess I’ll keep going.
I started with Bob's Red Mill Xanthan Gum. This is pretty commonly available in health food sections of grocery stores. The water I used came from the tap, city water, not a well. I'm not overly scientific in this first pass. This is more of a proof of concept before moving forward. I mixed 1/8 teaspoon of xanthan gum into 1 cup of water. after vigorous blending, I used an immersion blender for about a minute, I ended up with a thick, goopy kind of paste. Kind of a slimy snot like consistency. Sorry, not the most appetizing description for a food product.
Then I started a bench trial by adding increments of 1/8 teaspoon of the slurry to 1 cup of water. Starting at zero in one cup as a control and then 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8 and one full teaspoon. A little of this stuff goes a long way. My initial reaction is that I wouldn't want to add any more than the 1/8 tsp dose. At some point the mouthfeel becomes unpleasant. Frankly, I was already at that point. In my next iteration of the experiment I need to use a very precise scale to measure very small amounts of xanthan gum for the bench trial.
I didn't notice much of a smell from the slurry. The unmixed powder did have a slight odor. I would describe it as slightly yeasty. It wasn't as noticeable when mixed with water. That said, I used tap water that includes chlorine and who knows what else and it was subject to my sense of smell so it's not a very objective test. I didn't find the smell to be objectionable. I had the same reaction to a taste test. That said, I only tasted a very small amount and it wasn't a prolonged event to I don't know the cumulative effect of drinking it over time.
The last part of the test is letting the samples sit to see if the xanthan gum clumps up or drops out of solution.
Still way more questions than answers. Need to get a precision scale and keep trying on water before moving to wine. Frankly, I’m not really sure the juice is worth the squeeze but I’m already half way down the rabbit hole so I guess I’ll keep going.
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Zanthan gum will not drop out of solution, it is extremely stable. I have seen more issue getting it mixed in and have run a high shear mixer on a tank.
Dry volume is a reasonable way to establish a usage rate. For this I would make a 1/8 tsp per cup slurry as before then use a syringe (available for dosing kids meds) to measure test quantity of this into a cup of test liquid. The measured viscosity is expected to increase on logarithmic scale, , , ie going from 1/8 to 2/8 tsp will give ten times the viscosity. The viscosity will increase as temp is lowered (so room temp is good) This is close to linear.
Dry volume is a reasonable way to establish a usage rate. For this I would make a 1/8 tsp per cup slurry as before then use a syringe (available for dosing kids meds) to measure test quantity of this into a cup of test liquid. The measured viscosity is expected to increase on logarithmic scale, , , ie going from 1/8 to 2/8 tsp will give ten times the viscosity. The viscosity will increase as temp is lowered (so room temp is good) This is close to linear.
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@ThunderFred have you thought about trying gum arabic?? It is something I have heard of several winemakers adding to increase mouthfeel, there is an article on the Winemaking magazine website about it, I got an email from them today with a link pointing to it and it made me think about what you are trying to do. Here is the link, you may need to have an account with them to read it, I'm not sure. https://winemakermag.com/technique/gum-arabic-winemaking-secret-weapon
