Zinfandel grapes -> wine! A new member's introduction via a 75L of red deliciousness.

[winemaker81]

What a great idea for a thread!

Zinfandel (aka Primitivo) was my nemesis in 2023. We made it as a group wine in my garage and it took nearly 4 months to ferment reasonably dry…. It got stuck multiple times on the way down and thus required several restarts. But that’s a story for another thread. One thing that we learned along the way which may be relevant here is that Zin grapes have the unfortunate ability to extract more sugars from the skins while fermenting. So our brix went up rather than down in the first 2 days. You may want to measure carefully and wait on selecting a yeast until you know your numbers so that you are sure you have some head room.

How much did the SG go up? I recall you talking about it, but can't recall the details.

If the OG is around 1.100, the ABV will be less than ~14.3%, so most red wine yeast will not have a problem.

I have a high brix Zin kit (OG 1.114) underway -- kit instructions said to add both EC-1118 and RC-212. However EC-1118 has the killer factor and RC-212 is sensitive, so the likelihood was the EC-1118 would dominate. I inoculated with just the RC-212 -- at 1.008 the ferment slowed down more than I expected. RC-212 is rated for 16% ABV, so I figured it was reaching its tolerance. I made an EC-1118 starter and added it, and it fermented to completion, getting as much as possible from the RC-212.

If a given strain doesn't ferment to completion, finishing with EC-1118 is an option.

 

[tjmeyer]

What a great idea for a thread!

Zinfandel (aka Primitivo) was my nemesis in 2023. We made it as a group wine in my garage and it took nearly 4 months to ferment reasonably dry…. It got stuck multiple times on the way down and thus required several restarts. But that’s a story for another thread. One thing that we learned along the way which may be relevant here is that Zin grapes have the unfortunate ability to extract more sugars from the skins while fermenting. So our brix went up rather than down in the first 2 days. You may want to measure carefully and wait on selecting a yeast until you know your numbers so that you are sure you have some head room.

Freezing it first helps with this, it also stabilizes it surprisingly well giving you more time to make decisions and prep before the must gets up to is own unplanned shenanigans.

 

[tjmeyer]

Data
Zin is still defrosting and has not been mixed, so this is data is not final!
Ph
I did a pH strip on the must as is, it came in right under 3.6, I'm gonna call it around 3.4-3.5. I'll take another sample as the temps rise and I can mix it well. The pH strips are very non-photogenic, you'll just have to believe me since the sample came out very red on camera.

Spoiler: pH Strip Image

Sweetness
My taste test suggested that this batch is very sweet. I performed a refractive BRIX measurement. (see attachments for calibration photos). This measured at 32°.

Spoiler: BRIX Measured Image

 

[tjmeyer]

I'm going to try very hard to separate actual data from my personal comments. So a new comment! I'll post data with large formatted text for ease of visibility while scrolling.

I am personally very happy with this pH (I like to see 3.3-3.6 on my red must), assuming it doesn't change as temperature rises. I don't see a reason to take a more accurate read of pH, yet.

Some of these CA high desert vineyards make the sweetest grapes I've ever seen, this is no exception. I really think this will drop significantly as the juice and frozen water mix better. I have not taken SG yet, but a close-ish SG for this would be in the ballpark of 1.1389 (source: https://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/)

 

[winemaker81]

ome of these CA high desert vineyards make the sweetest grapes I've ever seen, this is no exception. I really think this will drop significantly as the juice and frozen water mix better. I have not taken SG yet, but a close-ish SG for this would be in the ballpark of 1.1389

I hope the brix drops. If not, you can sell the wine to an airline to use as fuel.

 

[tjmeyer]

I hope the brix drops. If not, you can sell the wine to an airline to use as fuel.

I have used over sweet grapes to make a killer port. You carefully stabilize with a brandy that matches the best you can.

Port is much easier than a bold red, however!

 

[winemaker81]

I have used over sweet grapes to make a killer port. You carefully stabilize with a brandy that matches the best you can.

Port is much easier than a bold red, however!

True. Is Port an option?

 

[tjmeyer]

True. Is Port an option?

It is! Typical ports have a lot of residual sugar, or sometimes little to no yeast fermentation at all. It can be anything from stabilized juice up to stabilized wine. Just needs to be stabilized with brandy and aged to be considered a port if I remember correctly. The most common aim is 20% ABV for a port, then let it sit for 2 years in a barrel. Of course there's so many variations it's just as silly as wine, but it is a much less technical process.


Add on: port was invented because the ships carrying wine couldn't keep the wine from spoiling before delivery. So they started adding enough brandy to keep it stable for the trip.

 

[winemaker81]

I've made a Port, backsweetening dry wine and fortifying with EverClear 151. This was a limited experiment which turned out well. I will probably take a few bottles of my 2022 wines and make into port using the same technique.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/2021-port/

In addition, I have 40+ splits from 3 different flavored Port kits, the oldest is 6 yo and aging nicely. I don't drink much of this type of wine, so it lasts for me.

 

[GSMChris]

So a few stats on the "Problem Child" which is what we now call the 23 Zin...

We picked up a little more that 1200 pounds of grapes the morning on September 12th and crushed by lunch. We then drew a sample and took it to one of the local labs (joys of living in the Paso Robles area is we have access to all kinds of resources). Initial numbers were excellent - pH 3.52, Brix 26.2, VA .004, YAN 336. We put dry ice on the crushed grapes and maintained the dry ice layer until the 14th when we pitched yeast.

We made a starter following the Scott's Protocol with a yeast of D254 along with the appropriate amount of GoFerm. We measured Brix with a Hydrometer and it was now 28.5 with a Temp of 57. We then added the starter in one corner and covered it up around 3 PM.

Things were quiet over night and I could hear a faint Rice Krispie noise at 7AM the next morning (the 15th). Brix was 28 and temp 61. Over the course of the day we had small drops and a slight increase in Temp. Since this was a group project, lots of people stopping by to learn how to measure Brix and Temp. When I put it to be it was 65 and 26.5.

Overnight it kicked in with a vengeance. At 8AM on the 16th it was 80 degrees and Brix 24. By lunch, it was 82 and 21 and at 7 PM it was 85 and 17. I left the windows open overnight as it was going to be a cool evening - in the 50s - which probably saved the wine.

7AM on morning of the the 17th, it was 88 degrees and Brix of 11. By noon it was 90 and a Brix of 12. We added 30 pounds of dry ice and by 7 PM it was down to 75 degrees with a brix of 12.5.

More to follow as it sticks at 8, 4, 3, and 2....

 

[GSMChris]

LER]


Sweetness
My taste test suggested that this batch is very sweet. I performed a refractive BRIX measurement. (see attachments for calibration photos). This measured at 32°.

Holy cow - perhaps you may need to sacrifice some of the lovely pH and water back....

 

[tjmeyer]

Holy cow - perhaps you may need to sacrifice some of the lovely pH and water back....

We'll see! Gotta give it time to separate a bit. But I sure hope not. I'm secretly a little excited about it being that high. Could be a fun challenge. I'm personally not a fan of solving a problem to create another one (dilution just to need to add acid). But I'll do whatever the forum recommends!

 

[tjmeyer]

Ordering RP-15 now. Everyone ok with this choice? I've never worked with it, but looks great on reviews!

 

[Ohio Bob]

I will probably take a few bottles of my 2022 wines and make into port using the same technique.

You probably will need to add additional glycerin. From memory, the bottle label had instructions that said to use about twice to 4x the amount if making liquors.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I performed a refractive BRIX measurement. (see attachments for calibration photos). This measured at 32°.

Are you positive the must doesn’t have some frozen water hidden somewhere? What’s your temperature?

 

[winemaker81]

You probably will need to add additional glycerin. From memory, the bottle label had instructions that said to use about twice to 4x the amount if making liquors.

I went high on the glycerin (compared to my normal) for the Port, and the next will be higher.

 

[tjmeyer]

Are you positive the must doesn’t have some frozen water hidden somewhere? What’s your temperature?

It ABSOLUTELY does. Don't take that measure too seriously. It's at 1-2°C There are still solid chunks in the must. I got impatient. Going to stir and measure each morning for the next few days until we're >17°C. Yeast starter at 18°C, then last measurement and yeast inoculation 12-24 hours after.

 

[cmason1957]

Ordering RP-15 now. Everyone ok with this choice? I've never worked with it, but looks great on reviews!

I'm a big fan of BM4X4 and AMH (also called something like Assmunhausan). The first is a combo of two yeasts that go well together and provide great things. AMH provides a very nice spicy bit to the mix.

 

[tjmeyer]

I'm a big fan of BM4X4 and AMH (also called something like Assmunhausan). The first is a combo of two yeasts that go well together and provide great things. AMH provides a very nice spicy bit to the mix.

Sounds good! Should we dose with more than 1 yeast? Split the must in two, one for rp15 and another for BM4X4? My only hesitation in splitting the must is the added complexity of keeping track of 2 sets of wine on a single thread. Could always make a second thread if that's what we decide, of course!

 

[winemaker81]

Sounds good! Should we dose with more than 1 yeast? Split the must in two, one for rp15 and another for BM4X4? My only hesitation in splitting the must is the added complexity of keeping track of 2 sets of wine on a single thread. Could always make a second thread if that's what we decide, of course!

Don't complicate the bookkeeping. Label the batches #1 and #2, and post fermentation they'll be blended, so it will be just one batch. Things may be complicated for a week or two, then it's steady state.