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Wade E

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Thanks to KevininPa for finding this info from Morewine.com

Help With Choosing Oak!
The following are results from research done at Stavin and should only be used to give an approximation of what each of these three varieties of oak can bring to your wine. Each sample was made using oak cubes with a two-month contact time and evaluated with no bottle ageing. Please note that due to the complexities of flavor chemistry these findings may or may not translate to your wine 100%. However, this information should be helpful in finding out which type of oak may the best to start with as you refine your oaking tastes.

French Oak Flavor Summary

All toast levels have a perceived aromatic sweetness and full mouthfeel.
French oak has a fruity, cinnamon/allspice character, along with custard/ crème brûlée, milk chocolate and campfire/roasted coffee notes*. (*Especially at higher toast levels.)
As the toast levels increased the fruity descriptor for the wine changed from fresh to jammy to cooked fruit/raisin in character.
American Oak Flavor Summary
The American oak had aromatic sweetness and a campfire/roasted coffee attribute present in all three toast levels, with Medium Plus and Heavy toast having the highest intensity.
American oak had cooked fruit more than a fresh or jammy quality.
American Oak imparted mouthfeel/fullness, especially in Medium Plus.
Hungarian Oak Flavor Summary
The Hungarian oak at Medium toast displayed a high perceived-vanillin content, with roasted coffee, bittersweet chocolate and black pepper characters.
Medium Plus and Heavy toast imparted mouthfeel fullness, with only a slight amount of campfire/roasted coffee. Heavy also had pronounced vanillin. At all toast levels, there were unique attributes such as leather and black pepper, not observed in other oak origins.
Some applicable generalizations of toast levels on oak
The lower the toast, the more tannins (“structure”) and lactones (“wood-like” and “coconut”) will be present in each of the oaks.
The higher the toast, the more spice and smoke notes will be present.
The deeper the toast, the more deep the caramel tones will be (moving into butterscotch at medium plus).
Vanilla will increase up through a medium-plus toast and then decrease with a heavy toast and char.
American oak will be more aromatic, but French oak will give more structure (Hungarian will give less than the French but more than the American).
The greater the toast level, the lower the lactones (“wood” and “coconut”) for all three woods.
Medium plus is the most complex of all of the toast levels, and the most popular.
 
Awesome!

That is the most to the point, layman's (although general) description.

Will give many a great starting basis, and of course the key is tasting your evolving goodness.

thanks.....
 
No reason you can't. Some kits come with both French oak shavings and Hungarian oak beans. All part of the fun!
 
Just last night, I tasted a beer that I brewed last year and aged on hungarian med-toast cubes. The hungarian really brought in touches of vanilla and lots of coffee notes! And that was only after sitting on the oak for about a month.

I have also considered mixing oaks. I see on the labels for a lot of Argentinian wines that they will do a mix of American and French oak aging. I would assume the American imparts the aromatics while the french helps with added body and structure... A match made in heaven :)
 
Found this a while back on an internet search and figured I should share. Thanks "More Wine!"

Oak Cube Dosages:

In general:

1 ounce is 34 cubes 2 ounces is 68 cubes 3 ounces is 102 cubes
So, from this we can calculate the following dosage rates:

“1 ounce per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 34 cubes for 5 gallons
7 cubes (rounded-up from 6.8) for 1 gallon 2 cubes (rounded-up from 1.8) for 1 liter

“2 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 68 cubes for 5 gallons
14 cubes (rounded-up from 13.6) for 1 gallon 4 cubes (rounded-up from 3.6) for 1 liter

“2.5 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 85 cubes for 5 gallons
18 cubes (rounded-up from 17.5) for 1 gallon 5 cubes (rounded-up from 4.6) for 1 liter

“3 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 102 cubes for 5 gallons
21 cubes (rounded-up from 20.4) for 1 gallon 6 cubes (rounded-up from 5.4) for 1 liter

*NOTE: that 2.5 to 3 ounces per 5 gallons is considered to be equivalent to “new barrel” extraction rates.
 
They have a boatload of great PDF manuals on just about every subject a winemaker could ever need. I have a nice binder filled with all of them. :p
 
I cut wood to heat with and the sawdust looked the same as what I put in my wine. Is there anything special about the oak shavings or could i just use some sawdust? I know I'm just being cheap but we have at least three different types of oak in the woods. I'm sure it would have to be dried.
 
I cut wood to heat with and the sawdust looked the same as what I put in my wine. Is there anything special about the oak shavings or could i just use some sawdust? I know I'm just being cheap but we have at least three different types of oak in the woods. I'm sure it would have to be dried.

The oak used for wine is always white oak. Red oak is never used. Yes, it is dried. Of course all white oak is not the same. Where it is grown and in what does make a difference.

Should you try your own white oak, I would suggest you first do a test case in a small container with less than your full batch of wine. That way, if your oak is not good for wine, you will not have sacrificed the whole batch.

Let us know if you do try your own oak and how it turns out. You never know, you just might discover a new oak forest suitable for wine making.
 
Okay guys,

I have read the above and it is good information. I am about to oak for the first time. I have those disposbable cheesecloth socks from my LWS and the correct kind of oak for my wine. Here is my plan:

I am going to pull out about a cup of wine before I oak and save for a base line taste test

put my oak in

wait for a few weeks?? (chime in here as I am pretty confused as to how long I should oak, everyone tells me "to taste")

Pull out a cup of "oaked" wine and do a taste test with the "pre-oaked" wine to see how I like it.

How long do you oak??
 
Wade, I have returned to this post several times. Maybe it should be a sticky.

Mike
 
TV, yes lots of people and wineries actually use oak in layers. They will keep the wine in one barrel for awhile then switch to accent it it for another period. Wiz, you got it!
 
Okay guys,

I have read the above and it is good information. I am about to oak for the first time. I have those disposbable cheesecloth socks from my LWS and the correct kind of oak for my wine. Here is my plan:

I am going to pull out about a cup of wine before I oak and save for a base line taste test

put my oak in

wait for a few weeks?? (chime in here as I am pretty confused as to how long I should oak, everyone tells me "to taste")

Pull out a cup of "oaked" wine and do a taste test with the "pre-oaked" wine to see how I like it.

How long do you oak??

Oak cubes impart their flavor pretty quickly. I believe I read somewhere that cubes impart all their flavor in 6 weeks.
Even if you taste your wine immediately after pulling your oak out, its not an accurate. It takes time for the oak to meld / blend / mellow / and incorporate into your wine. So the taste will be different from what you taste from when it is just pulled out.
 
Basic Oaking Question

Hello all--first post/question:

I've been using a 28 day kit but recently purchased a winexpert trinity red kit. My question is: when do I add the oak? Primary, Secondary Fermentation, or during the Stabilising and clearing stage? The first time I did it was with oak chips during the primary fermenation stage for about 2 weeks. It didn't really work.

Now I am going to try oak spirals. I plan on adding 2 spirals to the 5/6 gallons. I was planning on leaving the spirals in the carboy for 6 weeks during the secondary fermentation stage, after racking once. Is this correct?

Thanks for any help,

JA
 
Spirals and cubes are much better in bulk aging as they take longer to do the job. Not sure what you mean by the chips didnt work, they always work but each kit has a oak level and thinner kits have less oak as it would over power a thin wine. Also, kits dont usually have enough oak IMO as they dont want a customer to say it was too oaky so you should always taste it and see if your wine needs more.
 
oak help

I was using a Vino Italiano 4 Week Wine Kit, Cabernet Sauvignon. It was/is a pretty cheap kit. I tried using 3-4oz of chips in the wine during the primary and left it in for about 2 weeks. It started smelling "mildewy" or not fresh or something. I steamed the chips before using them. The kit was new. The chips seemed ok. It was my first try at leaving them in for longer than a day or 2.

Anyhow, I think it was the chips that created the stink, but I don't know this for sure. I tried to follow the directions on the sheet.

I spent more money on the Winexpert's California Trinity Red kit and purchased the spirals. I really like a wine that is oaky and I am hoping to get some tips on when to put the spirals in the wine. I assume it's during secondary in the carboy. I plan on leaving them in there for 6 weeks, even though (according to the sheet) I'm supposed to stabilize and clear after 10 days, or the specific gravity reaches 0.996.

Does this sound ok?
 
I spent more money on the Winexpert's California Trinity Red kit and purchased the spirals. I really like a wine that is oaky and I am hoping to get some tips on when to put the spirals in the wine. I assume it's during secondary in the carboy. I plan on leaving them in there for 6 weeks, even though (according to the sheet) I'm supposed to stabilize and clear after 10 days, or the specific gravity reaches 0.996.

Does this sound ok?
I use spirals in bulk aging. That is after you rack off the sediment from clearing. Your instructions may say to bottle at that point but many of us rack to a clean and sanitized carboy for 3, 6, 9, or 12 additional months. That is when I add oak spirals. I start tasting the wine every week after the third week. I pull the oak spiral when the taste is just a tiny bit more oak than I want, the assumption being that the oak settles down a bit in time.

If you are not going to bulk age for a few months I would recommend oak cubes in secondary rather than spirals.
 
I use spirals in bulk aging. That is after you rack off the sediment from clearing. Your instructions may say to bottle at that point but many of us rack to a clean and sanitized carboy for 3, 6, 9, or 12 additional months. That is when I add oak spirals. I start tasting the wine every week after the third week. I pull the oak spiral when the taste is just a tiny bit more oak than I want, the assumption being that the oak settles down a bit in time.

If you are not going to bulk age for a few months I would recommend oak cubes in secondary rather than spirals.


Thanks, Tonyt! This is SUPER helpful. One last thing: does the wine level need to be topped off for the bulk aging?

Thanks!
 

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