100L Speidel feedback?

[Bmd2k1]

Yes.

Speidel makes them both in plastic and stainless steel. For example (for information only, not a referral or suggesting purchase from this company):

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Speidel-Fermenter-OEM-Stainless-Steel-Spigot.html

So far I've only used the included plastic spigots for my 30Ls & 20Ls...no issues yet ✌

So with the larger volumes....not too much sediment gets sucked out?

 

[balatonwine]

So with the larger volumes....not too much sediment gets sucked out?

Yes, there is some sediment transfer.

A bit after the primary. But I even find this trivial. It may seem like a lot. But really, it is trivial compared to what will drop out of the wine in the next few months so I do not worry about it.

When I rack again, almost nothing gets out (yes a little, but not much).

And by the third racking the sediments are often pretty solid and nothing gets transferred.

The third racking is the racking before long term bulk aging, and even with that there will be some clarification and some sediment, and that never causes me a problem.

I may rack a few more times, before aging, if needed, but only if needed.

The real problem I have is cleaning off the crystalline deposits that precipitates out. It really seems to stick to these plastic containers. I use a strong NaOH solution myself. Dangerous. But works well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Yes, there is some sediment transfer.

A bit after the primary. But I even find this trivial. It may seem like a lot. But really, it is trivial compared to what will drop out of the wine in the next few months so I do not worry about it.

When I rack again, almost nothing gets out (yes a little, but not much).

And by the third racking the sediments are often pretty solid and nothing gets transferred.

The third racking is the racking before long term bulk aging, and even with that there will be some clarification and some sediment, and that never causes me a problem.

I may rack a few more times, before aging, if needed, but only if needed.

The real problem I have is cleaning off the crystalline deposits that precipitates out. It really seems to stick to these plastic containers. I use a strong NaOH solution myself. Dangerous. But works well.

Hope this helps.

Good stuff! Thanks 4 sharing. ✌

 

[Bmd2k1]

Yes, there is some sediment transfer.

A bit after the primary. But I even find this trivial. It may seem like a lot. But really, it is trivial compared to what will drop out of the wine in the next few months so I do not worry about it.

When I rack again, almost nothing gets out (yes a little, but not much).

And by the third racking the sediments are often pretty solid and nothing gets transferred.

The third racking is the racking before long term bulk aging, and even with that there will be some clarification and some sediment, and that never causes me a problem.

I may rack a few more times, before aging, if needed, but only if needed.

The real problem I have is cleaning off the crystalline deposits that precipitates out. It really seems to stick to these plastic containers. I use a strong NaOH solution myself. Dangerous. But works well.

Hope this helps.

I wonder if you could hook up a pump to one of the stainless spigots?

 

[Bmd2k1]

I do not have photos at this time.

But I go vertical. Mainly because I like to gravity move wine after the primary fermentation.

My cellar roof is 3 meters tall. My racks are made of 20 cm (8 in) wood beams set on concrete blocks. I have a wine pump to move must to the top tank at crush. The tanks are stacked on the beams. After racking, to move tanks back up, I have a hoist. I do not hoist the 200 L tanks, but the 100 L I can. The 60 L two people can lift up each level, standing on the beams. I have one two wheel dolly and one four wheel truck that I can put a tank on to move around the floor. When moving I screw on the hard caps so the tanks to not leak and can be tiled in any direction. That I all I need.

When fermenting in the 200L tank...how full do you typically fill it?

 

[balatonwine]

When fermenting in the 200L tank...how full do you typically fill it?

I use a pump. I have a Rover Pompe 20.

View from in the tank:



View from the press:

 

[Bmd2k1]

I use a pump. I have a Rover Pompe 20.

View from in the tank:



View from the press:

Thanks....was curious how FULL you would fill that 200L Speidel during fermentation...? ie) 150L ?

 

[balatonwine]

Thanks....was curious how FULL you would fill that 200L Speidel during fermentation...? ie) 150L ?

For a primary, about 80% full.

Secondary, it is topped off.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bmd2k1]

For a primary, about 80% full.

Secondary, it is topped off.

Hope this helps.

Thanks....yes it does

Cheers!

 

[Bmd2k1]

So you have a 200L primary -- which you fill to roughly 160L for fermentation (80% capacity) -- and you'll probably have something a bit less than 160L to store once fermentation is completed.

Seems like the challenge is to find a suitable size bulk aging vessel that minimizes/eliminates any airspace...without having to waste any wine, jump thru too many storage variation hoops etc etc.

 

[balatonwine]

Seems like the challenge is to find a suitable size bulk aging vessel that minimizes/eliminates any airspace...without having to waste any wine, jump thru too many storage variation hoops etc etc.

If one does not have a variable tank (easiest solution), then one simply can add inert volume to top off a secondary container to remove airspace. I have sometime simply filled a wine bottle with water, corked it, sterilized the outside, and dropped it into a tank to eliminate airspace. Sometimes it takes more than one bottle. But in the end things are topped up fine. The large hole at the top of Speidel tanks make this easy. If you have a carboy or a demijohn you have to use marbles or some inflatable bladder one can stick down the narrow neck and inflate. For trivial overflow, I do have glass in sizes 5, 10, 15, 17, 25 and 30 liters. I rarely loose wine. And to be honest, I kind of enjoy the puzzle and challenge to get it all in without wine loss. But that may just be me.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bmd2k1]

If one does not have a variable tank (easiest solution), then one simply can add inert volume to top off a secondary container to remove airspace. I have sometime simply filled a wine bottle with water, corked it, sterilized the outside, and dropped it into a tank to eliminate airspace. Sometimes it takes more than one bottle. But in the end things are topped up fine. The large hole at the top of Speidel tanks make this easy. If you have a carboy or a demijohn you have to use marbles or some inflatable bladder one can stick down the narrow neck and inflate. For trivial overflow, I do have glass in sizes 5, 10, 15, 17, 25 and 30 liters. I rarely loose wine. And to be honest, I kind of enjoy the puzzle and challenge to get it all in without wine loss. But that may just be me.

Hope this helps.

What type(s) of vessel(s) do you bulk age in - for your 100L+ batches?

 

[balatonwine]

What type(s) of vessel(s) do you bulk age in - for your 100L+ batches?

First to know, I only make white wines**, except for my Turán. So bulk aging is only a few months. So HDPE is fine for bulk aging in that time frame.

So for 100L+ batches, I use my 100L, 60L, and 30L Speidel tanks. Overflow goes into glass demijohns.

Hope this helps.

** I also make Amber wine, but I treat that mostly like my other whites after fermentation. A little more bulk aging, but not too many months more.

 

[Bmd2k1]

I use them. They work very well. I like them.

https://stcoemgen.com/2013/11/15/primary-fermenter/
Only issue: Avoid going above 100 L on the square ones. I have a 200 L square unit and it hard to clean through the small top hole.

Curious what the largest HDPE Speidel is you use? and what is your cleaning & sanitizing protocol for these larger vessels?

thanks!

 

[crushday]

@Bmd2k1 Although you didn't ask me the question, I'll take a stab just so you have another perspective. I have 20, 30, 60, 100, 120, and 300L Speidels. I use the 120's for MLF and very short term storage. As an example of short term storage (prior to bottling), I rack in the morning from a barrel to 120L, let settle for several hours to overnight and then bottle.

After use, I clean with PBW and a scrub brush and rinse. Just before use, I sanitize with a Kmeta solution (3 TBS per gallon H2O).

Another thing to note, I don't ferment red wine in the Speidels. I have fermented white wine in them, but not always, and find them to be quite convenient.

 

[Bmd2k1]

@Bmd2k1 Although you didn't ask me the question, I'll take a stab just so you have another perspective. I have 20, 30, 60, 100, 120, and 300L Speidels. I use the 120's for MLF and very short term storage. As an example of short term storage (prior to bottling), I rack in the morning from a barrel to 120L, let settle for several hours to overnight and then bottle.

After use, I clean with PBW and a scrub brush and rinse. Just before use, I sanitize with a Kmeta solution (3 TBS per gallon H2O).

Another thing to note, I don't ferment red wine in the Speidels. I have fermented white wine in them, but not always, and find them to be quite convenient.

Thanks for the feedback!

For the 300L what's your technique for applying the Kmeta solution?

Cheers!

 

[crushday]

Thanks for the feedback!

For the 300L what's your technique for applying the Kmeta solution?

Cheers!

I dump in the solution and hold the vessel overhead, rotating it to all surfaces a couple of times. Then, I dump it out…

 

[Bmd2k1]

I dump in the solution and hold it overhead, rotating it to all surfaces a couple of times. Then, I dump it out…

Same thing I do with my 20L & 30Ls - but I use StarSan.

Cheers!

 

[balatonwine]

Curious what the largest HDPE Speidel is you use?

200 L

and what is your cleaning & sanitizing protocol for these larger vessels?

To clean, I use Sanaton and Detersol from Enartis. Mostly with a brush and rubber gloves. The Sanaton also dissolves any tartaric acid crystals on the walls and will turn your skin into soap on contact, and the Detersol is sulfuric acid, so must wear PPE. But I get a very clean barrel this way. KMeta alone I found was sometimes not sufficient especially in removing all odors and did nothing to remove wall deposits.

I rinse with water to remove the chemicals. I may also pressure wash the 200 L inside as it is difficult to get into the base with my arm and a brush.

Then I rinse with KMeta. They are all light enough I can pick them up and agitate to clean all surfaces by rotation. Drain. And store open if not reused immediately.

Hope this helps.