20 Gallon ss brewing vessel for primary - capacity?

[Purplish]

Hello,

I have a 3 vessel brewing system and am likely moving out of brewing, and want to use one of these vessels as a primary fermentor. A member on another site said he'd probably keep it to 10 gallons in terms of capacity, but then I realize now I'm not sure that means must or finished wine, after losses. Thought I'd ask here.

Is 25% headspace reasonable for red wines, i.e., would 15 gallons must be OK in this vessel? 17 gallons? (a figure I saw somewhere on the web, but that just seemed high to me)?

I am very new and have not worked through any books in full, yet. If it's a quick answer (don't want to bother experienced members with noob questions, too much, if I can dig them up otherwise), but I also have 2 ss converted beer kegs, 15.5 gallons. After racking losses, would one of these be appropriate as a secondary vessel, if starting with a 17 gallon primary, or way too much space above the wine?

In general, not clear on sizing from primary down to final racking, before bottling. I don't know if there's a standard loss factor one can use as estimate, on racking?

Edit: Whoops, I don't think I've introduced myself here yet. I'm used to posting on HBT. I'm Paul, gadjobrinus over on HBT. Physical issues are moving me out of brewing, likely, and as I love wine, my cousin's a CA winemaker, and my wine-fancy has been lit (kind of when I started brewing 20 years ago or so, "I can do this at home?!"), I'm getting excited about giving this a try. Nice to meet you, and thanks again.

Many thanks.

 

[GreenEnvy22]

I always keep it at/under 75% full in my primary fermenters (including everything, so 25% of the height free for the foaming). The shape of the fermenter can affect this though.
You don't want any headspace in secondary, like only an inch or two diameter of surface exposed to air.

I'd suggest having some smaller secondary fermenters on hand, like 1 gallon jugs, so you can get your main one very full,and have some extras for when you rack.

Typically if I am doing a batch, I'll have 5 gallons in my biggest secondary fermentor, then a 1gallon one full as well. As I rack over a few months that extra one goes down to a 2L and then a 1L.

 

[Purplish]

I always keep it at/under 75% full in my primary fermenters (including everything, so 25% of the height free for the foaming). The shape of the fermenter can affect this though.
You don't want any headspace in secondary, like only an inch or two diameter of surface exposed to air.

I'd suggest having some smaller secondary fermenters on hand, like 1 gallon jugs, so you can get your main one very full,and have some extras for when you rack.

Typically if I am doing a batch, I'll have 5 gallons in my biggest secondary fermentor, then a 1gallon one full as well. As I rack over a few months that extra one goes down to a 2L and then a 1L.

OK, perfect, many thanks, greenenvy22. My vessel is 18 D x 21 H, so pretty close to 1:1 aspect ratio (it's a Spike Brewing Co. 20 gallon vessel, actually).

I better understand now on managing secondary headspace, thanks there as well.

Paul

 

[meadmaker1]

Losses to secondary really depends on what and how your doing.
If your using whole fruit you'll loose much more than juice and different fruits settle more compact than others.
I'm sure someone can give you whole grape break down.

 

[Boatboy24]

I use 20gal Brutes for fermenters and have had as much as 4 full lugs (144lbs) in there for primary. IIRC, it was about 75% full before fermentation kicked off.

 

[Ajmassa]

Is 25% headspace reasonable for red wines, i.e., would 15 gallons must be OK in this vessel? 17 gallons? (a figure I saw somewhere on the web, but that just seemed high to me)?

Hey Paul. Welcome home.
I just filled 20gal fermentors with 15 gal of must with skins. Was perfect amount. Wouldn’t go more. Room for cap and room to stir. Too high gets real messy. Was from 144lbs of grapes- just like boatboy’s (don’t know where’s he’s getting 48lb lugs tho lol). Check out the difference in the pic. Both have about 14-15 gal of must. One with full cap- other just stirred up.
If making wine from grapes I take pounds of grapes and shift decimal point one spot- to tell me how much must there will be. It works for me.
144lbs of grapes = 14.4 gal of must about
And then assume you get ~70% of finished wine from must volume.
70% of 14 gal is 10gal. Hope that helps

 

[NorCal]

What @Ajmassa5983 said

 

[Purplish]

Hey Paul. Welcome home.
I just filled 20gal fermentors with 15 gal of must with skins. Was perfect amount. Wouldn’t go more. Room for cap and room to stir. Too high gets real messy. Was from 144lbs of grapes- just like boatboy’s (don’t know where’s he’s getting 48lb lugs tho lol). Check out the difference in the pic. Both have about 14-15 gal of must. One with full cap- other just stirred up.
If making wine from grapes I take pounds of grapes and shift decimal point one spot- to tell me how much must there will be. It works for me.
144lbs of grapes = 14.4 gal of must about
And then assume you get ~70% of finished wine from must volume.
70% of 14 gal is 10gal. Hope that helps
View attachment 49110

Wow, Ajmassa5983, thank you so much. This is wonderfully helpful information. I'm thinking I'm trying too hard - this ss vessel I have, big deal. When I see you guys with gallons of bubbling musts in your Brutes, etc. - yeah, I'm thinking too hard.

Thank you for such a warm welcome, as well, AJ. I'm astounded at the level of expertise and creativity I'm already seeing in my short time here. Cannot wait to dive in more. Reading a few books now, but mostly thinking on sourcing quality fruit. Makes me miss school (Berkeley) a bit - Napa was so close!

Everyone, thank you all. You've all been really helpful. Looking forward to reading your posts and trying to catch up a bit with some history from this site.

 

[Boatboy24]

...- just like boatboy’s (don’t know where’s he’s getting 48lb lugs tho lol). ...

Thanks! I corrected my post.

 

[Ajmassa]

Wow, Ajmassa5983, thank you so much. This is wonderfully helpful information. I'm thinking I'm trying too hard - this ss vessel I have, big deal. When I see you guys with gallons of bubbling musts in your Brutes, etc. - yeah, I'm thinking too hard.

Thank you for such a warm welcome, as well, AJ. I'm astounded at the level of expertise and creativity I'm already seeing in my short time here. Cannot wait to dive in more. Reading a few books now, but mostly thinking on sourcing quality fruit. Makes me miss school (Berkeley) a bit - Napa was so close!

Everyone, thank you all. You've all been really helpful. Looking forward to reading your posts and trying to catch up a bit with some history from this site.

Well that was only my 2nd time making that much. And the first time I was able to figure out the amounts and sizes of everything without asking here first. Just paying it forward with info I learned here. I’d say this forum is the main reason I have been able to progress along in this great hobby as quickly as I have.
In the “what’s in your glass” thread these guys are popping corks on 4 yr and 7yr old bottles they’ve made! Will be very satisfying to get that point.

 

[Purplish]

Well that was only my 2nd time making that much. And the first time I was able to figure out the amounts and sizes of everything without asking here first. Just paying it forward with info I learned here. I’d say this forum is the main reason I have been able to progress along in this great hobby as quickly as I have.
In the “what’s in your glass” thread these guys are popping corks on 4 yr and 7yr old bottles they’ve made! Will be very satisfying to get that point.

I know right now the biggest problem I'm going to have: patience. I've been such a committed brewer for so many years, that sitting on bottles while they do their slow, gracious thing....is going to be tough!!! My two main loves are pinot noir, which I hope to oak, and Riesling, which I'll keep unoaked. Those pinots are going to be really tough to sit on. Will have to make some quicker turnaround wines, just to make it through, I'm afraid.