2012 Chilean Syrah

[kwb1963]

Hi All,

First post in this wine forum, and first time for me to make wine from fresh grapes. I bought 108 lbs of Chilean Malbec, 108 lbs of Chilean Viognier, and at the last minute, 90 lbs of Syrah. I'm concerned because the Syrah has a post-fermentation sulfur smell, which I've never encountered in my previous kit wines before. Here's a brief synopsis of my procedure.

Had the grapes crushed and destemmed at the vendor. Added k-meta and pectic enzyme at crush. Added pressed Viognier skins to must after crush. Waited 24 hrs and pitched yeast, Red Star Pasteur Red, along with Fermax yeast nutrient. Punched down cap 2-3 times per day and kept temp between 70-85 degrees F. Hand pressed with a strainer bag and funnel on day-5 at SG 1.005. Transferred to two 5-gal carboys, adding more Fermax.

On day-6 there were minimal signs of fermentation, and I inoculated with malolactic bacteria. On day 12 I noticed a strong sulfur smell in my basement and traced it to the Syrah. Note: I performed roughly the same procedure on the Malbec, but it never developed a sulfur smell.

Did some reading on hydrogen sulphide and decided to slash rack the Syrah, discarding the gross lees. Racked into one 5-gal and one 3-gal carboy. Sulfur smell diminished, but reappeared two days later. I've left it alone since. There's a small amount of bubbling at evident at the neck of the carboys, and the airlocks bubble every so often. I assume this is the malo at work. But I'm still a bit worried about the sulfur smell. It's not as strong now, but still noticeable if I sniff the airlock right after it bubbles.

Any thoughts?

Ken Burton

 

[kwb1963]

Hi Marty,

When I pressed the Syrah and transferred to carboys, I moved the wine from my kitchen to my basement, which is around 68-70 F. I don't have a good way to measure temp now that the wine is in a carboy, but I do have a temp strip on a different carboy of kit Syrah that's bulk aging, and it reads 70 F. The Chilean Syrah fermented much faster than the Malbec. I admit that I was lazy about SG measurement after transferring it to the carboys, but I assumed that it would finish within a few days of the transfer, since it was 1.008 when I pressed it. However, I suppose more sugar could have come out of the skins at press, and the lower temp in my basement could have slowed fermentation so that it took longer than I anticipated.

Actually, I didn't know that oxygen was detrimental to MLF. This is my first time to ever try it, so I have little idea what to expect, other than it's hard to tell it's even happening, so you need a way to measure malic acid when you think it's done. I've ordered some Accuvin malic test strips for that.

I splash racked the Syrah because I read several articles that suggested this procedure in the event of hydrogen sulphide development. The wine went still for a couple of days after, but then it started bubbling a tiny bit. As you said, this could be AF finishing up, and I suppose if it's producing hydrogen sulphide, then the yeast are stressed and need more nutrients. I'm not clear on the difference between all the types of "energizers" and "nutrients", but I only have Fermax Yeast Nutrient. Perhaps I should add another dose of that.

I've never heard of opti-malo nutrient nor Opti-Red or Reduless for that matter. I have heard of Copper Sulphate, but I'm concerned about that because it's toxic. In my reading about hydrogen sulphide produced during fermentation, the references I have said it was harmless and would blow off after fermentation was finished. One book suggested I splash rack and treat with K-meta, but I can't add K-meta until MLF is complete.

Tonight I stirred the lees (there's still a decent layer) on both the Syrah and the Malbec. I tasted them both. They're both harsh tasting like new wines should be, but the Syrah has a definite sulfur smell that the Malbec doesn't have. It's been 20 days since I pitched the yeast, and both wines show tiny bubbles in the neck of the carboys. I had assumed this was MLF, but if one or both are still going through AF, then I'm not sure how to proceed.

Ken

 

[joea132]

I had a horrible sulfide smell in my carmenere last year and tried copper pipe and reduless. I had no results with splash racking and copper pipe. Reduless helped but took away taste. I still have it and I'm going to try the CuSO2 as a last resort.

I did and extended maceration and got the smell about a week after pressing. I removed the gross lees shortly thereafter and I've prettymuch given up hope at this point. It really is a shame but it got away from me. I hope you don't have the same experience!

 

[kwb1963]

Thanks again Marty or the quick responses. I've downloaded the Scott Labs Fermentation Guide and will read it this weekend.

Here's another question for the forum. Actually two. What's the best way to measure acidity prior to fermentation, and what do I do now that I've screwed it up?

I have a small wine acid test kit that uses sodium hydroxide and phenolphthalein with a small test tube and syringe. Unfortunately, the color change is hard to see, especially in red wines. I used this kit to measure TA before fermentation of all three of my wines, and added tartaric acid based on the results. I've since bought a small PH meter, and I clearly made a mistake and added too much acid to my Malbec. Post fermentation, it reads 3.07 PH and TA exceeds the capacity of the acid test kit to measure. What I mean is, you add the entire syringe of sodium hydroxide but still don't neutralize all the acid. I'm now using my PH meter with the kit as an indicator instead of the phenolphthalein, but after adding the whole 3 CCs, the PH meter was still well below 7.

I know that post fermentation wine samples can be influenced by CO2, and I've read that you may need to boil the sample in a microwave for a few seconds before testing. I haven't tried this yet, but probably will soon. My real question is, will MLF followed by cold stabilization be enough to reduce TA to an acceptable level, or will I have to try some calcium carbonate?

 

[kwb1963]

Hey Marty,

I used to have a PH meter that broke several years ago and didn't get much use even when it did work. But I thought 7 was neutral. Why 8.2?

Update- I checked the wine temp in the carboys and found it to be ~66F. Too low for MLF and probably low enough to stress the Pasteur Red yeast near the end of AF. I've wrapped the carboys in an electric blanket to bring the wine up above 70F.

 

[kwb1963]

Okay, did some homework and some testing. Looks like I over acidulated both reds prior to fermentation. SG for both is ~ .992. I heated samples of both reds in the microwave for 1 min and allowed to cool to ~ 72F before running tests. (OMG the Malbec smelled good after heating!) I checked PH with my Checker PH meter and Accuvin test strips, just to confirm. Syrah PH 3.7, Malbec PH 3.1. I used the PH meter to run the acid test. Syrah .75 g/L, Malbec 1.025 g/L. Looks like I overshot on both reds, but especially on the Malbec. What concerns me about the Syrah is the high PH and high acid. I remember reading this is a bad situation. I'll have to go back and see what I can do about it. For now, I intend to warm the wine to 70-72F and allow MLF to complete. Then I'll move the carboys into a refrigerator and turn it down to ~35F for a month. I'll see where things stand around mid-July.

 

[sebring96hbg]

Hello kwb,

This is my first season taking the step beyond kits. I am doing a combo of two pails plus one lug to add body. I tested beforehand but did not need to make any adjustments. In the fall, I will take the next step to all grapes. I highly recommend visiting the link below.

http://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals

It's a lot of reading. You may have run across it already. It helped me to understand informative posts by Marty, bzac and others on various boards and blogs and introduced me to a lot of different additives. Good luck!

 

[kwb1963]

Joe, hope your carmenere turns out okay. Thanks for the well wishes. Sebring, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. Did either of you get your grapes from Harford WInery in MD?

Marty, thanks for all the advice.

 

[sebring96hbg]

Joe, hope your carmenere turns out okay. Thanks for the well wishes. Sebring, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. Did either of you get your grapes from Harford WInery in MD?

Marty, thanks for all the advice.

I did as it was convenient to southcentral PA.

 

[Rock]

Great advice Marty,the best syrah i ever had is the chilean syrah my brother and i made in 2008,if im lucky maybe we will get more.Not sure this year as i missed the boat on it.

 

[Rock]

It will be an honor to drink your wine!!!!

 

[carmine]

Well Rock it will be my pleasure. I was at M&M Yesterday and the Chilean Grapes that were there looked perfect. The Santa Cruz varieties are due next week. I have to say while I am not making any this spring I did ask Frank to freeze some Must for me to ferment in September.

Hi Marty glad to see that your'e back on a forum I love sausage and peppers .How Lucky is Frank!!!! Can't wait to try the Malbec from Santa Cruz. Thank god for FrankMusto to allways come thru to us amaeture wine makers.

 

[kwb1963]

For better or worse, I chose the path of intervention for both the Syrah and the Malbec today. Checked MLF progress on both with Accuvin Malic acid test strips. The Syrah appeared to be almost done while the Malbec hadn't even started. Recalibrated my PH meter and got 3.7 for the Syrah and 2.99 for the Malbec. Clearly, the Malbec is too acidic to support MLF. Meanwhile, the Syrah still has its sulfur smell.

I racked the Syrah into a primary and treated with 1/2 tsp K-meta. Then I added packet #1 of Super Kleer, followed by packet #2 1/2 hour later. Racked it back into 5 and 3-gal carboys, topping up the 3-gal with a bunch of Hungarian oak cubes.

I calculated the amount of calcium carbonate required to reduce the TA of my 8-gal Malbec from 1.025 down to .7 g/L. Came up with 1.38 tsp, so I went conservative and added 3/4 tsp and stirred the lees. I'll check PH and TA results tomorrow.

Question- is MLF likely to start now that I've lowered the acidity, or do I have to re-innoculate?

 

[carmine]

For better or worse, I chose the path of intervention for both the Syrah and the Malbec today. Checked MLF progress on both with Accuvin Malic acid test strips. The Syrah appeared to be almost done while the Malbec hadn't even started. Recalibrated my PH meter and got 3.7 for the Syrah and 2.99 for the Malbec. Clearly, the Malbec is too acidic to support MLF. Meanwhile, the Syrah still has its sulfur smell.

I racked the Syrah into a primary and treated with 1/2 tsp K-meta. Then I added packet #1 of Super Kleer, followed by packet #2 1/2 hour later. Racked it back into 5 and 3-gal carboys, topping up the 3-gal with a bunch of Hungarian oak cubes.

I calculated the amount of calcium carbonate required to reduce the TA of my 8-gal Malbec from 1.025 down to .7 g/L. Came up with 1.38 tsp, so I went conservative and added 3/4 tsp and stirred the lees. I'll check PH and TA results tomorrow.

Question- is MLF likely to start now that I've lowered the acidity, or do I have to re-innoculate?

Keep the wine in a warm enviroment 70 deegrees and see if it goes if not i would re inoculate and also add optimalo plus to it. that's food for the mlf culture good luck
Carmine

 

[CellarRat]

I have read this thread from top to bottom and noticed posters referring to Marty, yet I do not see any of marty's posts. Were they taken down by some nazi moderator? Where is the content?

 

[carmine]

I have read this thread from top to bottom and noticed posters referring to Marty, yet I do not see any of marty's posts. Were they taken down by some nazi moderator?

They were taken away alot of good information that was posted by Marty

 

[Deezil]

I have read this thread from top to bottom and noticed posters referring to Marty, yet I do not see any of marty's posts. Were they taken down by some nazi moderator? Where is the content?

Just to answer your question, he got himself banned. Just so happens, it affected this thread. When someone gets themselves banned, they don't retain the privileged to share any information publicly, whether its good or bad.

But none of that has anything to do with the 2012 Chilean Syrah, so if an effort to not derail this thread any further, pm me if you feel the need.