2018 Cab Blends

[stickman]

@mainshipfred you made me get off the lazy chair and calibrate my pH meter.

Samples are at 20C

Moon Mtn. pH 3.65
Red Mtn. pH 3.72

 

[mainshipfred]

@mainshipfred you made me get off the lazy chair and calibrate my pH meter.

Samples are at 20C

Moon Mtn. pH 3.65
Red Mtn. pH 3.72

Sorry, the only reason I asked is i have a Cab Franc that is extremely tannic with a ph of near 4. A winemaker told me reducing the ph would mellow out the tannins. But you do have a Cab Sauv that should be tannic and 3.65 and 3.72 sounds right on target

 

[stickman]

My opinion is that low acidity will allow for higher tannin without it being too aggressive. That's why the cult cabernet's can have low acidity and high pH, but still have balanced velvety tannins. If you already have aggressive tannin, and then you add acid, it usually exaggerates the tannin and acidity/tartness impression.

 

[mainshipfred]

My opinion is that low acidity will allow for higher tannin without it being too aggressive. That's why the cult cabernet's can have low acidity and high pH, but still have balanced velvety tannins. If you already have aggressive tannin, and then you add acid, it usually exaggerates the tannin and acidity/tartness impression.

I planned on doing an acid bench trial this weekend on the CF, a Syrah and a Touriga all around 4. I'll see how much of a difference a lower ph makes.

 

[Martin Siebring]

@Ajmassa5983 I haven't noticed any significant effect on pH. One 2g net so2 tablet (5.5g gross) in a 30gal batch might drop the TA by .02g/l.

What are you using to measure so2? I just got the Vinmetrica SC-300 but it's giving strange readings. I'm wondering if I have a bad probe.

 

[stickman]

I'm using the old school wet method Aeration Oxidation. What do you mean by strange readings, is it repeatable? Several members have the Vinmetrica so they may be able to help.

 

[Martin Siebring]

I'm using the old school wet method Aeration Oxidation. What do you mean by strange readings, is it repeatable? Several members have the Vinmetrica so they may be able to help.

I'm following the directions precisely. No matter how much SO2 titrant I add, the reading on the meter will spike up to a high number and then gradually decrease back down to a reading around 5. The manual says the endpoint is reached when the reading stays above 50, but it never gets there. Am I doing something wrong?

Maybe I am just misreading the directions. I thought the reading needed to stabilize above 50 for 15 seconds, but does it just have to remain above 50 for 15 seconds even though it is dropping?

 

[mainshipfred]

I didn't go back and reread it but what I do is add the titrant until it starts to beep and and beeps for 20 beeps. if it stops before 20 continue to add the titrant until you do reach the 20.

 

[Martin Siebring]

I didn't go back and reread it but what I do is add the titrant until it starts to beep and and beeps for 20 beeps. if it stops before 20 continue to add the titrant until you do reach the 20.

Yeah that makes sense. I'm not sure why I was thinking the reading needed to stablize, it doesn't say that anywhere in the manual...

 

[stickman]

Checked the SO2 and pH of the 2018 Cab blends:
Red Mountain, pH 3.73, SO2 14.4 ppm free
Moon Mountain, pH 3.65, SO2 15.7 ppm free
Added another SO2 tablet to each, approx 17.6 ppm

They are both interesting wines at this point, but very difficult to describe the difference, there is some red fruit showing, but I detect mostly tannic differences right now, Moon Mountain has more woody vine character, the Red Mountain tannins seem a little more grassy vine in nature.

I ordered 500lbs of Moon Mountain Cab for the 2019 harvest, were going to do a 100% single vineyard Moon Mountain Cab this year.

 

[stickman]

I missed updating this thread, so I'm adding information from my hand written notes to fill in the gap.

12/10/19, added 17.6 ppm SO2 to both cab tanks; no analysis was done.

3/1/20, ran sulfite test and got 16.5 ppm free; added another 17.6 ppm SO2 to both Cab tanks, stirred lees twice over the following few weeks.

6/4/20, today ran sulfite test on the Red Mountain Cab and got 22.4 ppm free; I'll add another dose of SO2 when I rack these wines to demijohns in preparation for bottling, hopefully soon. The wine has softened up quite a bit, the oak and fruit have come together, now I just need to get off of the lazy chair and get this stuff bottled.

 

[stickman]

Procrastination is still happening, so I decided to add another so2 tablet (17.6 ppm) to each tank and re-suspend the lees. I'm hoping to rack to demijohns maybe in a couple of weeks.

 

[Ajmassa]

Procrastination is still happening, so I decided to add another so2 tablet (17.6 ppm) to each tank and re-suspend the lees. I'm hoping to rack to demijohns maybe in a couple of weeks.

Re-suspend the lees? As a byproduct of mixing in the so2 tab?
Or is there a greater purpose here for stirring up the lees so close to bottling?

 

[stickman]

I had to stir because of the so2 addition, but it's part of my normal routine, most of my so2 additions don't involve a racking. At this late stage the lees settle fairly quickly, but figure as long as they're clean I might as well try to get as much from the lees as possible.

 

[Ajmassa]

I had to stir because of the so2 addition, but it's part of my normal routine, most of my so2 additions don't involve a racking. At this late stage the lees settle fairly quickly, but figure as long as they're clean I might as well try to get as much from the lees as possible.

Ah ok. Glad you clarified. Intentionally suspending lees in red wine is not something I see mentioned often. Actually I mostly see the opposite with an emphasis on having zero lees and crystal clear wine.
Even in late stages I never viewed lees dust as a bad thing. Though Ive only stirred it up very occasionally early on during MLF but never thought to do it later on.
But I do like the idea of it—-especially if going a while without racking.
-mixing in so2 thoroughly
-extracting any last bits of ‘goodness‘ from lees
-(& my own little personal theory based on gut not science)~~a little o2 introduced to keep the wine honest/keeping the wines white blood cells in shape and not so fragile to future o2 shocking it’s system. (For glass storage at least)

 

[stickman]

Normally with heavier reds the lees should be removed early in the process, as most people do, but later during aging, maybe 4 to 6 months after ML, some winemakers will add back the reserved fine lees and continue aging with occasional stirring. The reserved lees are kept until needed by storing in barrels, and are regularly stirred to provide access to some oxygen and prevent sulfur odors.

 

[stickman]

Finally pumped the Red Mountain Cab to the bottling rack, it's a little more mature than the Moon Mountain Cab, enjoyable even at this stage, but I'm sure it will improve in the bottle. The carboy has very little oak and is different than the tank aged as expected. I considered blending the carboy with the tank aged stuff, but decided to keep it separate; it will provide some interesting conversation during future tastings. I'll probably check the SO2 one last time before bottling, hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

 

[stickman]

Finally got around to bottling the Red Mountain Cab blend, the 7 cases are my share. The wine is very good at this point, nice fruit, huge body, mouthful of tannin but the texture is nice, we'll see what happens after some cellar time. I have to admit the bottle prep is a major pain, the bottles were already clean, but I still gave them a sulfite solution rinse before filling.

Next in line for bottling is the Moon Mountain Cab, I'll need to purchase bottles for this batch.

 

[Venatorscribe]

Finally got around to bottling the Red Mountain Cab blend, the 7 cases are my share. The wine is very good at this point, nice fruit, huge body, mouthful of tannin but the texture is nice, we'll see what happens after some cellar time. I have to admit the bottle prep is a major pain, the bottles were already clean, but I still gave them a sulfite solution rinse before filling.

Next in line for bottling is the Moon Mountain Cab, I'll need to purchase bottles for this batch.

View attachment 65083

Yeah - agree with you re the bottle prep. I do similar. Store bottles clean and treat mine with a Star San rinse prior to bottling. I've learnt to cope with the monotony by listening to pod casts.

 

[stickman]

Just updating this one, thinking about bottling the 2018 Moon Mtn. Cab in a month or two, decided to run a free SO2 test since it's been around 4 months from the last test. It came in fairly low at 12.4 ppm, so I added another 17.6 ppm tablet to the tank. As usual I'll give the wine a couple of weeks and then transfer to the bottling rack, check and adjust sulfite again, then bottle a couple of weeks after that. In this tank the SO2 seems to be dropping about 5 or 6 ppm per month. The wine is very enjoyable at this stage, nice fruit, tannins have softened, it definitely has brighter acidity than the Red Mountain.