2018 Grape Season Underway

[Ajmassa]

I’m gonna be grabbing my main grapes from Pintos. 20gal straight cab. Vineyard still tbd.
But as Paul can attest— I just can’t bring myself to not swing by Procacci at some point. It’s just one of those things. So aside from the good chit, I’ll be throwing in 1 or 2 small batches for fun. Possibly a bucket/lug from pintos. But definitely planning for a throwback from Procacci.
Gonna make a batch of the old family D*** Red recipe from grapes. Problem is all the main family who made this are all dead. And my old man did juice mostly. When he did do grapes he was basically winging it without a clue. And neither him or I can remember what the heck they did back in the day! So I really don’t have a frame of reference.
Muscat/Alicante blend. When they did juice they would ferment separately in the buckets. Will be 2 Muscat 1 Alicante. (Often some Thompson’s seedless were tossed in when they did large batches) So the main question I have is:

Do I crush em all into the same vessel and ferment on both red and white skins ?
Or
Crush and press the Muscat and ferment separately from the Alicante fermenting on skins?

What even happens when fermenting on white skins ? Piss off the wine gods?

 

[mainshipfred]

OK just spoke with Gino's and 7 lugs of Paso Robles Old Vine Zin are on reserve. They recommended those and Amador over the others. No specifics, just consistently better grapes than the others according to them.

That's not all you are doing is it?

 

[mainshipfred]

No no. I just meant in terms of finished volume to expect. And what vessels your using for aging

I’ve never done just a juice bucket and 1 lug. It’s always been some crazy additions. Like, a half a lug and 100lbs worth of skins. Or few hefty scoops of fresh grapes and a mosti mondiali pack with other skins. But not a straight bucket/lug combo

**i ask because the bucket/lug combo seems pretty standard and popular. But 8 gal finished volume is a funky size

With an assortment of 3, 5, 6 and 7 gallon carboys you can accommodate almost anything. I just wish I had more 1 and 1/2 gallon ones.

 

[mainshipfred]

Do I crush em all into the same vessel and ferment on both red and white skins ?
Or
Crush and press the Muscat and ferment separately from the Alicante fermenting on skins?

What even happens when fermenting on white skins ? Piss off the wine gods?[/QUOTE]

Not being much of a white wine drinker the only take away I have with fermenting with white skins is would the tannins take something away. That's the only question I would have.

 

[Ajmassa]

would the tannins take something away. That's the only question I would have.

Hmmm. Interesting.....my main thought to your point is -I have no idea what your talking about. Lol.

But for real. I don’t.

 

[mainshipfred]

For the Zin, or just in general?

In general, 7 lugs seems light for you, even with the recent Australian.

 

[mainshipfred]

Hmmm. Interesting.....my main thought to your point is -I have no idea what your talking about. Lol.

But for real. I don’t.

Didn't you post this did I read it the wrong way? "What even happens when fermenting on white skins"

 

[Ajmassa]

Didn't you post this did I read it the wrong way? "What even happens when fermenting on white skins"

“If fermenting white wine WITH the skins, the tannins might taking something away”

Wasn’t sure of ‘how’. Or ‘which’ tannins and from ‘what’. And taking away from ‘what’ So I essentially had “no idea what your talking about” lol

 

[Johnd]

“If fermenting white wine WITH the skins, the tannins might taking something away”

Wasn’t sure how. Or which tannins and from what. And taking away from what. So I essentially had “no idea what your talking about” lol

IIRC, this is called "Orange Wine", when white grapes are fermented with their skins, as it tends to produce a wine with an orange hue to it. The extraction of tannins from the skins will be much higher than wine that is made from the juice of C/D'd and pressed / settled juice. Do some reading on it, here's a starter for you:

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/orange-wine-skin-contact

 

[mainshipfred]

“If fermenting white wine WITH the skins, the tannins might taking something away”

Wasn’t sure of ‘how’. Or ‘which’ tannins and from ‘what’. And taking away from ‘what’ So I essentially had “no idea what your talking about” lol

Johnd might have explained it better. My point as John mentioned is since the standard for white wine is crush and press there would be very little tannin extraction. Which might be why whites are usually crisper.

 

[mainshipfred]

Just an FYI, The S ans S prices are last years and the majority of their grapes come from Lodi and Napa. Frankly I didn't see anything on last years price list that would steer me away from Napa.

 

[Boatboy24]

Just an FYI, The S ans S prices are last years and the majority of their grapes come from Lodi and Napa. Frankly I didn't see anything on last years price list that would steer me away from Napa.

When you look at their photo gallery, almost any pic that shows grapes, shows containers with Amador Gold labels on them.

 

[pgentile]

No no. I just meant in terms of finished volume to expect. And what vessels your using for aging

I’ve never done just a juice bucket and 1 lug. It’s always been some crazy additions. Like, a half a lug and 100lbs worth of skins. Or few hefty scoops of fresh grapes and a mosti mondiali pack with other skins. But not a straight bucket/lug combo

**i ask because the bucket/lug combo seems pretty standard and popular. But 8 gal finished volume is a funky size. Does 8gal sound about right for vol?

Yeah, it can range a little up or down though. Like 7.5-8.5

 

[pgentile]

Do I crush em all into the same vessel and ferment on both red and white skins ?
Or
Crush and press the Muscat and ferment separately from the Alicante fermenting on skins?

What even happens when fermenting on white skins ? Piss off the wine gods?

A year or two ago i would have thrown them altogether, but now I would ferment separately and blend later with some and some have straight muscat and alicante wines.

Fermenting white on skins is somewhat trending, calling them "orange" wines.

 

[pgentile]

That's not all you are doing is it?

No, not at all. I'm just switching up and getting my Zin from Gino's and will get other grapes and buckets from Procacci.

 

[stickman]

I’m gonna be grabbing my main grapes from Pintos. 20gal straight cab. Vineyard still tbd.
But as Paul can attest— I just can’t bring myself to not swing by Procacci at some point. It’s just one of those things. So aside from the good chit, I’ll be throwing in 1 or 2 small batches for fun. Possibly a bucket/lug from pintos. But definitely planning for a throwback from Procacci.
Gonna make a batch of the old family D*** Red recipe from grapes. Problem is all the main family who made this are all dead. And my old man did juice mostly. When he did do grapes he was basically winging it without a clue. And neither him or I can remember what the heck they did back in the day! So I really don’t have a frame of reference.
Muscat/Alicante blend. When they did juice they would ferment separately in the buckets. Will be 2 Muscat 1 Alicante. (Often some Thompson’s seedless were tossed in when they did large batches) So the main question I have is:

Do I crush em all into the same vessel and ferment on both red and white skins ?
Or
Crush and press the Muscat and ferment separately from the Alicante fermenting on skins?

What even happens when fermenting on white skins ? Piss off the wine gods?

I have seen a lot of old school D*** Red wine making. The white and red grapes get fermented together, back then it would have been considered wasteful to press the white before fermentation. Once it got going, the primary fermentation was usually around 5 days, no yeast, no nutrients, and no sulfite, was ever added. The wine was pressed and put into a barrel in the basement with an air lock and left for several months, then a wooden bung replaced the air lock. In most cases the wine was never racked.

 

[Ajmassa]

I have seen a lot of old school D*** Red wine making. The white and red grapes get fermented together, back then it would have been considered wasteful to press the white before fermentation. Once it got going, the primary fermentation was usually around 5 days, no yeast, no nutrients, and no sulfite, was ever added. The wine was pressed and put into a barrel in the basement with an air lock and left for several months, then a wooden bung replaced the air lock. In most cases the wine was never racked.

Thanks stickman
Pretty much exactly what they did too. (They did rack once). But no sulphite, yeast, nutrient or anything. And Christmas was always the barrel tasting. Usually was already quite drinkable.
Age 12 was when we could indulge in a glass with our meal. Sounds crazy, but it wasn’t for the alcohol aspect. It was just what the adults drank at dinner. And if drinking wine at dinner then it was understood your old enough to be accountable for your actions. Kinda like- “your a man now- so act like one. And have a glass of wine without being a knucklehead. Salutè”

I just couldn’t remember if they included the white grape skins or not. I was pretty certain the wines were not separated- only when they did the juice. Which led to me questioning what benefit is there to keeping the white skins in the primary.

 

[stickman]

When you have color from the red skins, it reacts with the tannins over time to become pigmented tannin, this tends to tame the tannins to some extent, so in this case a little extra tannin from the white skins is not a problem. In a pure white wine you don't have the color, much more delicate, so the tannin may give some undesirable character or bitterness.

 

[pgentile]

Age 12 was when we could indulge in a glass with our meal. Sounds crazy, but it wasn’t for the alcohol aspect. It was just what the adults drank at dinner. And if drinking wine at dinner then it was understood your old enough to be accountable for your actions. Kinda like- “your a man now- so act like one. And have a glass of wine without being a knucklehead. Salutè”

No home wine involved unfortunately, but my Italian side grandparents would lets us have a small amount of beer or wine with dinner starting much younger than 12. They thought it was a healthy thing to do. But then again my grandfather taught all his grand children to say "vaffanculo" as one of our first words. That's means FU for anyone who doesn't know.

 

[Ajmassa]

Great. Thanks for the info. I’m looking forward to this batch. Not sure if I’ll keep it true to form and stress free or do the standard meddling.
I do miss the wine and it would be great to replicate it. We all knew the “homemade kick” as they’d say. And I know my family will appreciate it. And if I start checking levels and making adjustments and MLF and whatnot maybe I could make an even better version of it-but then that’s not the point of it. Eh. I’ll figure it out later. $105 for a 6 gal batch of grape wine ain’t so bad.