A basic question...

[Pat_in_TN]

I have been making wine kits for almost a year now and this is my first post.

I use wine expert kits. Here is my question: After clarification, can I bottle it at any time if it has NO CO2 left in the wine. I built my own degassing system using a vacuum pump so I know there is no CO2 left in the solution. In other words, is there any difference in aging the wine in a carboy vs. aging in a bottle?

Thank you for any advice.

Pat

 

[mennyg19]

Im gonna try to answer to see if I know anything. If i dont, i can be sure to get beat up by the more experienced guys... So here goes:
For starters theres an entire thread (havent read it) called "bulk vs bottle aging" or something like that. I think the general consensus is that bottle aging allows for quicker oxidizing, as opposed to bulk aging. It would seem a bit obvious. One leaky opening for gallons of wine versus 50 or more leaky openings for the same amount of wine, which one will leak more?

 

[AZMDTed]

Lots of posts on this topic in the forums. Here's a couple things that I think most of us can agree on regarding bottle v bulk aging:

1. leaving your wine a carboy will allow sediment to continue to fall out before you bottle it, otherwise your bottles will get the sediment. Kits with grape skins are the most prone to continue to drop sediment for many months after the clearing stage.

2. The longer the wine is in a carboy the more you can tweak it if you want to. You can't easily tweak 30 separate corked bottles, but you can easily tweak a 6 gallon batch in a carboy.

 

[JohnT]

Bulk aging gives you the opportunity to do another racking.

Even though your wine might be clear, your wine will continue to drop sediment (especially when young). By bulk aging, you have the opportunity to remove that sediment before it goes into the bottle.

 

[DoctorCAD]

That is sort of like asking if synthetic oil is better than dino oil, or if black cars are better than red cars.

There is no "correct" answer, either way will work and either way has pros and cons. It's all up to you as the winemaker to decide which method you are willing to do.

 

[Floandgary]

So you see,,,,, basic answer to a basic question. "Your choice". If you're willing to stick with it,, try each way and experience the results. Makes it easier to justify your choice

 

[salcoco]

it depends o the wine. aging of a white wine usually does not add any benefit especially if a sweet wine. fruit wines also may fall in this category. bulk aging red wines does have a benefit especially if oaking the wine. I usually wait at least 6 months in a carboy others wait longer before bottling. I have had wine in the bottle for over 6 years and found that it aged well in that time.

 

[heatherd]

I have been making wine kits for almost a year now and this is my first post.

I use wine expert kits. Here is my question: After clarification, can I bottle it at any time if it has NO CO2 left in the wine. I built my own degassing system using a vacuum pump so I know there is no CO2 left in the solution. In other words, is there any difference in aging the wine in a carboy vs. aging in a bottle?

Thank you for any advice.

Pat

@Pat_in_TN,

I found that bulk-aging six months keeps sediment from falling in my bottles. I had tried three months prior, but still had sediment dropping. My three-month-olds also had gas, which I know you're not concerned about based on your post.

 

[JohnT]

One other benefit, although mostly psychological..

Aging in bulk impedes your ability to drink it.

I know that EVERYBODY has cheated the bottle aging process by opening a bottle or two every now and then. The next thing you know, your wine turns 1 year of age and you only have 2 bottles left!!

 

[Johnd]

For me, once sure that the wine is free of CO2 (also vacuum degas, so accomplish that very early on), free of sediment, oaked properly, and needs no further adjustments, bottling is acceptable, especially if carboy space is needed.

The things read here and learned from experience, is that when a wine is young, I'm only confident that I have it degassed. It changes with time, drops more sediment, the fruit changes, the oak falls back, tannins mellow, and as those evolutions occur, if it's already bottled, you got what you got.

Have put wines from carboys back into the barrels that at the time thought were sufficiently oaked when removed. Have wines that were rushed to bottle under 6 months that have a beautiful dusting of sediment in the bottle a year later. Even in my 55F cellar, get diamonds in my carboys and barrels before bottling. Time is smart and tells the tale accurately.

Point is, and this is only my conjecture, that starting at about a year of age, my level of confidence in what is seen, smelled, and tasted in the carboy is representative of what can be expected to progress properly into the future bottle aging of the wine. That's my typical minimum goal. Do I violate it? Yes, sometimes, and sometimes suffer for it. Sometimes go much longer, never been sorry for that.

Have read that wine ages more slowly in larger quantities than in smaller, and also that there is an increased risk of oxidation in carboys (due to inherently leaky bungs) than behind a cork in bottles. Don't know how to balance that scientifically, but haven't had any oxidation issues in carboys. In the end, as others have posted, you get to decide what you want to accept, what works for you, your situation and resources.

 

[Scooter68]

mennyg19 - Have you been flogged enough now?

My two cents - First look at the kit instructions and decide if they sound reasonable or if you want to venture out and do it your way.

Bulk aging has it's advantages - best of all you can always adjust the batch if something changes. You can later split the batch and adjust part of it.

Personal choice, like what tastes good is one of the fun things about wine making. It's a 'little' different than a couple of carpenters comparing square blocks of wood to see which is the squarest.

 

[Pat_in_TN]

Thank you all for your valued input.....it looks like a lot "depends". After a year, I have just gotten to the point that I have some wine that is a year old....most of my early wines did not last over 3 months, family and friends all had to try some......I just may purchase a smaller size carboy, bottle half and age half.....it would be a fun experience for me and I'd love to post my findings....I'll let you know how it works out and again, thank you for your feedback.

pat

 

[dralarms]

Where in Tennessee are you?

 

[richmke]

For me, wine in the carboy takes up a lot less space than 30 bottles of wine. Keeps us from drinking it too as it ages the minimum 18-24 months.

You can move down to 5 gal carboys to help with headspace issues. That gives you a few bottles to "sample" as it ages.

 

[Scooter68]

One last point - Many wine kits are designed for the wine to be ready to drink ASAP - they don't 'need' aging. So part of the answer depends on the kit instructions which you can disregard or stick to meticulously.

You can always decide to stop the aging in bulk and bottle but once bottled....

If nothing is precipitating out of the wine after a couple of rackings with a kit wine, you may well be ready to bottle.

 

[Pat_in_TN]

I purchased a buon vino small wine filter....it does a great job filtering the wine and making it crystal clear...As for tweaking the wine afterwords....I guess I don't really know what is meant by that, but I'll try and do some more reading on it.

To answer dralarms, I am located about 40 miles north of Knoxville and live in a community outside of La Follette TN. My wife and I retired here full time from Minnesota about 7 years ago. Definitely a much nicer climate and more tax friendly.

 

[Johnd]

...As for tweaking the wine afterwords....I guess I don't really know what is meant by that, but I'll try and do some more reading on it.

Generally, adjustments made to finished wines (tweaking) can include changes to tannins, oak, sweetness, acidity, those type things.

Admittedly, the kits should be in pretty good shape, conventionally, in regards to acidity, ie: in the good, sound pH and TA range, but some folks like them more crisp and will increase the acidity a bit. For my wines, I like a lower pH than most white kits produce, so a little tasting and adjustment of the pH downward with some tartaric acid is an example of an adjustment made.

Most of the adjustments made to kits after the wine is "done" are made for our own personal preferences, and the most important tools for that is your sense of taste and smell. You can use "finishing" tannins to increase the tannin content in your wine. If you like your wines more oaky than the kit turned out, you can use a number of oaking products, barrels, staves, sticks, cubes, etc. Some folks find that the addition of a little sweetness to an otherwise dry wine suits their taste better.

 

[Pat_in_TN]

Thanks for the education John....I also took note of your signature comment and will make sure that I follow the advice.....good reminder.....

 

[dralarms]

I purchased a buon vino small wine filter....it does a great job filtering the wine and making it crystal clear...As for tweaking the wine afterwords....I guess I don't really know what is meant by that, but I'll try and do some more reading on it.

To answer dralarms, I am located about 40 miles north of Knoxville and live in a community outside of La Follette TN. My wife and I retired here full time from Minnesota about 7 years ago. Definitely a much nicer climate and more tax friendly.

I'm in athens, 55 miles south of knoxville, I have a customer in LA Follette

 

[Johny99]

One other benefit, although mostly psychological..

Aging in bulk impedes your ability to drink it.

I know that EVERYBODY has cheated the bottle aging process by opening a bottle or two every now and then. The next thing you know, your wine turns 1 year of age and you only have 2 bottles left!!

Au contrair, as long as it is in the Carboys or whatever, you can just steal (wine thief) a bit now and then, and drop in a few clean marbles of course. Is that why I end up bottling less than all the tables tell me I should have?