Adding Oak and such.

[Czaccary]

If you were to buy a kit and want to add your own sides could you do that? Ditch that wood they give you and sub it for some wood you may have instead?
How does one go about soaking such wood in whiskey then adding it into the wine? Would that be during primary fermentation or secondary? What other things would you say you add to your wine that is pretty un-normal?

 

[winemaker81]

If you were to buy a kit and want to add your own sides could you do that?

It's your wine, you can do anything you want. The question is not "can I?", it's "should I?".

Although said tongue-in-cheek, "should I?" is important. Regarding oak, use white oak that is produced for winemaking. This oak is typically aged 1.5 to 3 years, and toasted. Using wood from other sources can be dangerous if chemicals are involved, and other species (e.g., red oak) can produce off flavors.

Woods other than oak can be used, but research it first, as not all produce pleasing aromas and flavors.

How does one go about soaking such wood in whiskey then adding it into the wine?

I'd put oak cubes in a jar with a lid, pour whiskey over it, then screw the lid shut. Shake a few times per day for a few weeks. What are yu trying to produce?

Oak is added during fermentation, and during aging.

What other things would you say you add to your wine that is pretty un-normal?

Define "normal"? Look at the Tweaking Cheap Kits thread for ideas.

 

[Czaccary]

It's your wine, you can do anything you want. The question is not "can I?", it's "should I?".

Although said tongue-in-cheek, "should I?" is important. Regarding oak, use white oak that is produced for winemaking. This oak is typically aged 1.5 to 3 years, and toasted. Using wood from other sources can be dangerous if chemicals are involved, and other species (e.g., red oak) can produce off flavors.

Woods other than oak can be used, but research it first, as not all produce pleasing aromas and flavors.


I'd put oak cubes in a jar with a lid, pour whiskey over it, then screw the lid shut. Shake a few times per day for a few weeks. What are yu trying to produce?

Oak is added during fermentation, and during aging.


Define "normal"? Look at the Tweaking Cheap Kits thread for ideas.

thanks for the reply! and just wondering super excited starting my journey into the wine making. ill be looking to get cubes soon. Im currently making a caber sauv .

 

[winemaker81]

thanks for the reply! and just wondering super excited starting my journey into the wine making. ill be looking to get cubes soon. Im currently making a caber sauv .

Cool!

I suggest you not get too experimental until you have a few kits under your belt. Get comfortable with the process.

Also, make some quicker drinking wines, whites & lighter reds. Your first few kits will evaporate far faster than you will believe.

 

[VinesnBines]

Someone will suggest this eventually, but split your kit after the primary and age some with your whisky oak (bourbon is nice) and some without. Then you will get a better feel for the flavors the oak and whisky add.

 

[wineview]

thanks for the reply! and just wondering super excited starting my journey into the wine making. ill be looking to get cubes soon. Im currently making a caber sauv .

I was just reading up on oaking. I’m not sure why, but oak spirals seem to be a favorite over cubes.

 

[winemaker81]

I was just reading up on oaking. I’m not sure why, but oak spirals seem to be a favorite over cubes.

It's a trade-off of ease of use vs cost. Cubes are cheaper, but it's typically necessary to rack the wine to remove them. Tie the spiral with nylon monofilament fishing line, and it's easy to remove as needed.

I'm a cheap SOB so I use cubes. Besides, cubes are more configurable, e.g., I can add 1 oz medium toast Hungarian, 1/2 oz medium toast French, and 1/2 oz heavy toast American to a carboy to fine-tune the aroma and flavor imparted.

 

[wineview]

Does adding oak spirals create C02 in the carboy? I noticed a lot of bubbles near the neck about a week after dropping them in. Give the carboy a jiggle and the bubbles travel up.

 

[winemaker81]

Does adding oak spirals create C02 in the carboy? I noticed a lot of bubbles near the neck about a week after dropping them in. Give the carboy a jiggle and the bubbles travel up.

Nope. It's most likely the spiral is simply a collection point for existing CO2, like when you drop a straw into soda and it gets covered with bubbles.

 

[wineview]

Very good comparison. Thanks.

 

[tullamore]

i never used cubes , spirals or chips - always had my wines in barrels
be careful when using those - u can over oak quickly if left in without tasting once a week -

 

[winemaker81]

i never used cubes , spirals or chips - always had my wines in barrels
be careful when using those - u can over oak quickly if left in without tasting once a week -

How old are your barrels? Mine are pushing 13, so they are totally neutral, requiring oak adjuncts if I want oak flavoring.

Your caution is an important one -- it's very easy to over-oak wine, and that may not be fixable. I'm using 1 to 2 oz cubes per 5 US gallons. Last year I used 5 oz in a 14.25 gallon barrel, and left the cubes for a year (after ~3 months the cubes are expended).

 

[tullamore]

How old are your barrels? Mine are pushing 13, so they are totally neutral, requiring oak adjuncts if I want oak flavoring.

Your caution is an important one -- it's very easy to over-oak wine, and that may not be fixable. I'm using 1 to 2 oz cubes per 5 US gallons. Last year I used 5 oz in a 14.25 gallon barrel, and left the cubes for a year (after ~3 months the cubes are expended).

i'm in the year 15 on my 2 large ones (225 litres) - i re-coopered 2 times for each - i've been lucky i had a great cooper-
smaller ones 115 and 60 litres are 10 years old -again re-coopered 2 times
re coopered 2 times is the max
i have American,French and Hungarian
i will be replacing 1 of my larger ones this harvest
i love neutral neutral barrels - wine sits in for 1.5 -2 years perfect

 

[Markybones]

2022 is my second year of making wine, and I'm thinking I would like to try small oak barrel aging for my meager 3 gallons of dry red, a blend of Verona, Petite Pearl, and Marquette. I've read that smaller barrels really speed up the process because of the greater contact of the wine to the oak, so I know I shouldn't keep the wine on oak very long. A month? Two months? Longer??

 

[winemaker81]

2022 is my second year of making wine, and I'm thinking I would like to try small oak barrel aging for my meager 3 gallons of dry red, a blend of Verona, Petite Pearl, and Marquette. I've read that smaller barrels really speed up the process because of the greater contact of the wine to the oak, so I know I shouldn't keep the wine on oak very long. A month? Two months? Longer??

Yes and no. You get more oak extraction, especially with barrels under 19 liter / 5 US gallons. With a 12 liter barrel, you may be able to keep the first few batches in only a month or so.

The evaporation/concentration effect, which I consider more important, requires time, and you will not get that with small barrels, not until they go neutral, around the 3 year mark.

A carboy is a container. A barrel is a commitment.

 

[tullamore]

i agree a barrel is a commitment -
u can always go the oak chips, chunks, spiral route to start off with
once u go down the barrel route - make sure u have enough inventory to have that barrel full at all times

 

[winemaker81]

@Markybones, is your entire production 3 gallons? If so, a barrel may not work out. Assuming you can get a 3 gallon barrel, my guess is you'll need to cycle at least thee 3 gallon batches in the first year, possibly as many as six. So production has to be 9 to 18 gallons, plus at least 10% for topup wine. My guess is a wide range as I'm guessing as to the oaking rate and evaporation rate of the barrel.

Note that you can fill a barrel with a holding solution (acid + K-meta), but it leaches oak character from the barrel the same as wine does.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy; just ensuring you understand what you're getting into. MoreWine! has a barrel care guide (see my sig for link) that provides detailed information about barrel prep, usage, and care.