WineXpert Aging a wine kit for longer?

[Czaccary]

Recently bought a wine kit that calls for 4 weeks and wondering in that secondary fermentation could i extend the time? What precautions would i need to worry about if i were to go another month or so?
Is that something you have done in the past?
Also I’ve seen when people add stuff during primary fermentation they stir it up? If i were to have a tight lid and a air lock I’m assuming opening it and stiring it wouldn’t be a good idea since i would have to RE tight it and such?

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

Yes, around here we often strongly encourage people to age their wine in a carboy (aka "bulk age") for a long time. I typically age reds for ~1 year in the carboy under airlock. You should add k-meta once in a while during that time. (Typical is 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons every 3 mos. or so.)

 

[my wine]

Also I’ve seen when people add stuff during primary fermentation they stir it up? If i were to have a tight lid and a air lock I’m assuming opening it and stiring it wouldn’t be a good idea since i would have to RE tight it and such?

Welcome to WMT!

It's ok to open the lid, stir and close it back up. During primary, the yeast is still very active. It needs some oxygen to work and it spews out CO2 which protects the wine. So isn't a big concern but it's wise to be cautious while the wine is in the primary. It becomes more critical to minimize or avoid oxygen during secondary fermentation and especially during aging.

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

During primary fermentation, it's better to ferment in an open container, as yeast uses O2 for reproduction. You should be stirring/punching down at least once daily, as it keeps the cap from drying out and provides the yeast with O2.

As @sour_grapes said, we recommend carboys for bulk aging, as the glass is neutral (no danger of affecting the wine as other materials can), and airspace (headspace) can be strictly controlled.

During fermentation, ignore kit time frames -- the hydrometer tells you when fermentation is complete, not a calendar.

Post-fermentation, treat all time frames as minimum values, e.g., "2 weeks" means "at least 2 weeks".

A mantra on WMT is "ask a question of 10 winemakers, get at least 11 answers". Regarding bulk aging of kits, you'll get at least 30 answers.

As a general rule, 4 months between start and bottling is a minimum. Beyond that, I base it on the wine itself and other factors. White wines and lighter reds, typically 4 to 6 months. Heavier whites such as Chardonnay and medium reds, up to 9 months. Heavy reds? 12+ months. In general, the more body the wine has, the longer it benefits from bulk aging as it's going through longer term chemical changes. However, there are no firm rules -- it depends on the wine and other factors, e.g., if using barrels, which need to be kept full, timing of removal of the old wine and adding of a few wine need to be coordinated.

 

[joeswine]

I never had that concern, ferment, use your hydrometer as your guide the transfer to a carboy.

 

[Czaccary]

Welcome to WMT!

Yes, around here we often strongly encourage people to age their wine in a carboy (aka "bulk age") for a long time. I typically age reds for ~1 year in the carboy under airlock. You should add k-meta once in a while during that time. (Typical is 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons every 3 mos. or so.)

Thank you I’ll be looking into this when i move it to my Carboy!

 

[Czaccary]

I never had that concern, ferment, use your hydrometer as your guide the transfer to a carboy.

Ahh interesting after you pour it into the pocket you just put a cloth over it? Daily do you stir it or do anything to it? About how long ( estimating ) till you see a reading of .999 to know you transfer?

 

[Czaccary]

Welcome to WMT!

It's ok to open the lid, stir and close it back up. During primary, the yeast is still very active. It needs some oxygen to work and it spews out CO2 which protects the wine. So isn't a big concern but it's wise to be cautious while the wine is in the primary. It becomes more critical to minimize or avoid oxygen during secondary fermentation and especially during aging.

Thank you very much my wine has been in primary for about 2 days with a air tight lid and a air lock I’m about to go open it and stir it up . Should i take a reading of it as well?

 

[Czaccary]

Welcome to WMT!

During primary fermentation, it's better to ferment in an open container, as yeast uses O2 for reproduction. You should be stirring/punching down at least once daily, as it keeps the cap from drying out and provides the yeast with O2.

As @sour_grapes said, we recommend carboys for bulk aging, as the glass is neutral (no danger of affecting the wine as other materials can), and airspace (headspace) can be strictly controlled.

During fermentation, ignore kit time frames -- the hydrometer tells you when fermentation is complete, not a calendar.

Post-fermentation, treat all time frames as minimum values, e.g., "2 weeks" means "at least 2 weeks".

A mantra on WMT is "ask a question of 10 winemakers, get at least 11 answers". Regarding bulk aging of kits, you'll get at least 30 answers.

As a general rule, 4 months between start and bottling is a minimum. Beyond that, I base it on the wine itself and other factors. White wines and lighter reds, typically 4 to 6 months. Heavier whites such as Chardonnay and medium reds, up to 9 months. Heavy reds? 12+ months. In general, the more body the wine has, the longer it benefits from bulk aging as it's going through longer term chemical changes. However, there are no firm rules -- it depends on the wine and other factors, e.g., if using barrels, which need to be kept full, timing of removal of the old wine and adding of a few wine need to be coordinated.

Thank you very much for the reply!
Estimating when you do primary fermentation with a open lid do you stir it up frequently or leave it alone with a open top? About how long till you get a good reading ? then you transfer to the carboy for aging correct? The aging process can vary but for a red roughly min 2-3months correct? Sorry my question is all over the place I’m new and trying to wrap my head around the process I started !

 

[Chuck E]

Ahh interesting after you pour it into the pocket you just put a cloth over it? Daily do you stir it or do anything to it? About how long ( estimating ) till you see a reading of .999 to know you transfer?

You can put a towel over it or just leave the lid on loosely. I typically stir or punch down the grape skins twice a day. 7 to 14 days to see a low reading, but it depends on the temperature. I start to measure the S.G. when the yeast stops foaming in the bucket.

 

[Chuck E]

Estimating when you do primary fermentation with a open lid do you stir it up frequently or leave it alone with a open top? About how long till you get a good reading ? then you transfer to the carboy for aging correct? The aging process can vary but for a red roughly min 2-3months correct? Sorry my question is all over the place I’m new and trying to wrap my head around the process I started !

For a red, I would say 6 months minimum aging. I generally age mine for a year or more. I rack (transfer) from carboy to carboy every 3 months or so. The first few rackings will leave some sediment on the bottom of the carboy, and the wine gets crystal clear.

 

[winemaker81]

Estimating when you do primary fermentation with a open lid do you stir it up frequently or leave it alone with a open top? About how long till you get a good reading ? then you transfer to the carboy for aging correct? The aging process can vary but for a red roughly min 2-3months correct? Sorry my question is all over the place I’m new and trying to wrap my head around the process I started !

I typically stir twice per day, morning and night. In the past I didn't check SG until day 4, but the overnight starters recommended by FWK kick the ferment off hard-n-fast, so I'm checking daily.

I recommend waiting at least 4 months before bottling all wines, and heavy reds wait a year.

 

[joeswine]

Ahh interesting after you pour it into the pocket you just put a cloth over it? Daily do you stir it or do anything to it? About how long ( estimating ) till you see a reading of .999 to know you transfer?

I never stir it unless I have a skin pack then I just dunk the skins . Other than that the process can take care of it self. Let your hydrometer be your guide, if alls well and the gods are with you you should start fermentation in 8 to 10 hrs.

 

[Mekpdue]

As a newcomer to winemaking (<year), whether making a kit wine or a juice/must I add the yeast (after nutrients if I'm using them) on top of the juice (rarely stir it in), I'll loosely place the lid on top but do not seal it for ~5 days. I open and punch down 2x daily if I have grape skins, and stir usually 1x a day with no skins. When my hydrometer (measured externally in a tube-I don't place it in the must due to possible hydro breakage) reads <1.010 or so I will then seal tight the lid, put distilled water or vodka in my airlock and let the wine finish primary and secondary (no open or stir). I'll open the lid and check the SG with my hydrometer on day 14 or after to ensure the fermentation is complete. I use .998 or lower as my marker (but prefer <.996). At that point, I move to a sanitized carboy, follow the kit directions of adding any clearing agents/oak/sorbate/etc and cap with an airlock. Leave that alone for 2-3 weeks, then move to another carboy and bulk age for various times...see above for more experienced wine maker suggestions. The advice, hints, and training that I have received here has been GREAT!

 

[Czaccary]

For a red, I would say 6 months minimum aging. I generally age mine for a year or more. I rack (transfer) from carboy to carboy every 3 months or so. The first few rackings will leave some sediment on the bottom of the carboy, and the wine gets crystal clear.

I know it varies, but roughly how many racks would you say till all the sediment is gone? everytime you rack do you add anything in?

 

[Czaccary]

As a newcomer to winemaking (<year), whether making a kit wine or a juice/must I add the yeast (after nutrients if I'm using them) on top of the juice (rarely stir it in), I'll loosely place the lid on top but do not seal it for ~5 days. I open and punch down 2x daily if I have grape skins, and stir usually 1x a day with no skins. When my hydrometer (measured externally in a tube-I don't place it in the must due to possible hydro breakage) reads <1.010 or so I will then seal tight the lid, put distilled water or vodka in my airlock and let the wine finish primary and secondary (no open or stir). I'll open the lid and check the SG with my hydrometer on day 14 or after to ensure the fermentation is complete. I use .998 or lower as my marker (but prefer <.996). At that point, I move to a sanitized carboy, follow the kit directions of adding any clearing agents/oak/sorbate/etc and cap with an airlock. Leave that alone for 2-3 weeks, then move to another carboy and bulk age for various times...see above for more experienced wine maker suggestions. The advice, hints, and training that I have received here has been GREAT!

Thanks for the reply I loved reading this, when one says put the lid on loosely does that mean just placing the lid on top and not pushing it down?

 

[Bossbaby]

Thanks for the reply I loved reading this, when one says put the lid on loosely does that mean just placing the lid on top and not pushing it down?

Yes, loosely means just lay it on top to keep out debris, I use a cheese cloth and wrap a wire around the bucket to keep it from falling in. Racking is most important in the beginning, after primary and again a few weeks later to remove the heavy Lee's. At about 3 months or so you can Rack again if there is a lot of sediment at the bottom of the carboy and at this time add sulphites. If aging for longer you will want to add k meta/ sulphites every 3 months or so.

 

[winemaker81]

I know it varies, but roughly how many racks would you say till all the sediment is gone? everytime you rack do you add anything in?

I was taught to rack every 3 months during bulk aging, but I've stopped racking unless there is a reason to do so. For my 2020 Meritage:

Pressed.
Racked off gross lees.
Racked again into barrels
Racked prior to bottling, 11 months later. Added K-meta every 3 months.

My count, including pressing, was 4 times in 16 months.

When you rack, ask yourself what you are accomplishing. I rack off gross lees, and when needing to move to a new container, e.g., barrel. If the Meritage had been carboy aged, I'd have racked 3 times.

 

[Mekpdue]

does that mean just placing the lid on top and not pushing it down?

Yes, just set it on top and don’t press down. Placing a towel or cheesecloth/mesh on top also works, just tie it down somehow so it doesn’t droop into the must.
Enjoy the experience and try different things to find your preference.

 

[winemaker81]

Placing a towel or cheesecloth/mesh on top also works, just tie it down somehow so it doesn’t droop into the must.

This is a good reason to use old beach towels, as they are long enough and typically heavy enough that they won't droop into the wine -- the weight of the ends holds them taut enough. It's also another reason to use a large enough primary, so the surface of the must isn't as close to the towel.

Reading through this thread, there's lot of great advice. A bit of general advice -- when looking at process, the most important question is "why?" -- it's far more important than "what?" or "how?". Understanding why a step in a process is performed is key to deciding if it's something we should do.

Also, consistency is not essential. I follow the same general process for each wine, but specific things in a specific wine's lifecycle may alter that. Besides, my process evolves as I learn new things.