Any Experienced Port Makers?

[vacuumpumpman]

Mike
I am only giving my personal experience with the use of everclear to enhance it so if someone chooses to fortify your port with it you can.

If you notice in my above post I did make this comment
"I will agree with others that the term Brandy - well can be confusing. It is probably the closest thing to 100% brandy that they originally used to make port originally. Unless you have a license to distill "

here is some brandy made from grain ?
http://www.cluesener.de/index.php?id=28&L=1

If you distill Wine and pull out all the alcohol - there is no taste - just high proof alcohol.

I would like to talk to you directly more on this matter if you are willing
Just Pm me and we can exchange phone #

 

[Deezil]

I know I'm about a decade late on joining this thread, but...


Mike's got 'er right

Brandy is made from wine, and normally doesnt go over 40-60% ABV
Higher distilled spirits made from wine, are Grappa or Eau de Vie

I've pretty thoroughly researched a lot of this, as I've wanted to own a winery based around grape+fruit combos & specialty fruit ports (hence the creation of my Banana Bochet Port idea)

Vacuumpumpman, they've just put a marketing spin on that, trying to sell a grain liquor to brandy lovers. Eau de Vie is the closest you can get to true Brandy that the Portuguese add to their wine - but good luck affording it! $60-80 for 375ml of the 'okay stuff' - not the stuff locked up behind a glass window.

If you distill wine to the point where it lacks a majority of the flavor, its Eau de Vie... Like vodka still has flavor, so does Eau de Vie - just not as strong as brandy, but when you drink an Apple Eau de Vie, you know its apple.

 

[Runningwolf]

Wow Dan & BigMac, I have port envy...

Dan, were they all red grape ports? Kits? Details please!

Dan I had no idea! 120 gal! Any details you're willing to share

This was made from Touriga Nacional grapes. The grapes are pretty difficult to find but they make the very best port in my opinion. I did a a tiny bit of Cab sauv to it.

 

[seth8530]

Coming from a spirit lover here, but an expierenced nose and tounge can taste the difference even from the typed of grains used in making vodka. Ie certain kinds lend a creamier taste on the finish. So, I would venture to say the type of spirit used matters quire a bit.. .But in a way that is much more important than feeling obligated to stick to a certain spirit just because you believe it is the closest used in a certain region...

Ie, if you are making a fruit port, perhaps you would choose to use everklear to try and keep the fruit flavour as prominent as possible... While, if you were making a more traditional grape based port, you would need every bit of grape flavour you can hope to get... Or even better, say you were making apple port ( dont know why you would) but you could fortify it with calvados ( expensive stuff lol)..

Honestly, I think it all should boil down to what the winemaker is stylistically after rather than one spirit or the other being "better" than the other. However, the winemaker should also understand what each candidate could potentially bring to the wine..

My .05$

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Thanks Deezil for explaining more in depth.

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks Deezil for explaining more in depth.

additionally, it also comes down to availability and costs to the individual winemaker. If you ferment Jalapenos or Welches frozen grape juice it's still wine, just a different style. I feel you're all right, just different styles and results.

 

[vernsgal]

additionally, it also comes down to availability and costs to the individual winemaker. If you ferment Jalapenos or Welches frozen grape juice it's still wine, just a different style. I feel you're all right, just different styles and results.

Well said Dan. I made "wine" out of candies

 

[dangerdave]

So, I'm still trying to figure out how to handle my Dragon Port. As I see it, my options are:

1) Halt fermentation at 1.010 with alcohol infusion (of some kind)
2) Sorbate? Some say yes, others say no.
3) If I don't want to add alcohol, what exactly are my options?

Sounds like just adding some Everclear would be the easy route. My Momma said I always had to do things the hard way.

 

[Runningwolf]

Dave port is usually sweet and about 19% abv. Adding alcohol to get your wine to 19% will stop your fermentation, no need for sorbate. If you're not adding alcohol, you will need to ferment to dry (and add sorbate if you're going to sweeten).

 

[dangerdave]

Thanks, Dan. I don't know why I'm trying to get around it. Stubborn, I guess. My brain is telling me strange things. Like...

Ok, the EC-1118 will give out around 18%. What happens if I keep chaptalizing the fermentation until the SG no longer changes? If my target SG is 1.010, can I add sugar, ferment, add sugar, ferment, etc, and when it stabilizes at the desired point, can I leave it without adding additional alcohol?

The port kit I made called for stabilization with sulfite and sorbate at 1.010, then add the f-pack. Can't I go that route, too?

 

[Runningwolf]

Psst Dave, pull up a stool and meet me in the corner. Now shut the f^%$ and stick to Dragons Blood!

Sorbate won't stop a fermentation but it help prevent it from starting back up with the help of k-meta.

Now I'll really stir the pot. Occasionally I find it necessary to sweeten a big red just a tiny bit to pull out some more of the berry flavors. I never go over 1/2% rs and I never add sorbate. No issues. If one cannot figure out the exact amount of sugar I would not recommend this.

Think outside of the corner!

 

[dangerdave]

I've done the same thing, adding just a tiny hint of sweet to a red, just to pull out the fruit. Won an award for one of those. Bazinga!

But this IS a Dragon Blood---of sort. I'm just trying to expand my horizons a bit. Branch out, so to speak. Can't lean on my past successes forever. Blah-blah, etc, etc.

Ok, I'm going to get some effin Everclear for my port. Sheesh!

 

[ShawnDTurner]

Dave. Try the method I/steve laid out to soften and smoothed out the everclear! You will be shocked! Cheers

 

[Deezil]

Ok, the EC-1118 will give out around 18%. What happens if I keep chaptalizing the fermentation until the SG no longer changes? If my target SG is 1.010, can I add sugar, ferment, add sugar, ferment, etc, and when it stabilizes at the desired point, can I leave it without adding additional alcohol?

The only catch with this is that you'd have the potential for off-flavors from stressing the yeast or running out of nutrients. The nutrients can be worked around, by using organic amino-based nutrients but the stressing of the yeast just kinda comes with the territory, there...

 

[vernsgal]

Psst Dave, pull up a stool and meet me in the corner. Now shut the f^%$ and stick to Dragons Blood!

Sorbate won't stop a fermentation but it help prevent it from starting back up with the help of k-meta.

Now I'll really stir the pot.
Think outside of the corner!

Lol. I myself like to stir a pot on occasion just to see what/or who will boil over

It is nice to see there are so many of you making Ports. I plan on starting my own in the New Year, so 2015 I’ll be able to add my 2 cents worth to these type of questions.

I knew when I opened this post I was going to hear various ways and views and I’m glad to have seen a few.

My Port will probably be a fruit one opposed to grape so right off the bat I’m not true
I’m also Canadian so everclear etc. aren’t even possible for me.

I am glad to have found you. I started making wine back in 2009 ( all kits and pails) because it allowed me to make what I enjoyed and at a price I can afford.( I found you back then but have to admit I was a silent stalker, lol.) I joined this site late last year to learn how to do nonkit/pails. I am always glad to read your experiences and not to be sent to another site to read someone else’s ( as some other site’s have you do, sorry I hate links unless it’s to someone I can question) Before I post a question I have read so much on the topic ( and yes a lot of it is conflicting, such as this 1 )and is why I’m looking to you for “your” outcomes. I’m not looking to make commercial so I don’t care who’s way is right or wrong. I DO want to know how you made yours and how it turned out at what age, the math,what not to do etc.

Just want to say you all give me a smile

 

[Runningwolf]

Lol. I myself like to stir a pot on occasion just to see what/or who will boil over


I am glad to have found you. I started making wine back in 2009 ( all kits and pails) because it allowed me to make what I enjoyed and at a price I can afford.( I found you back then but have to admit I was a silent stalker, lol.) I joined this site late last year to learn how to do nonkit/pails. I am always glad to read your experiences and not to be sent to another site to read someone else’s ( as some other site’s have you do, sorry I hate links unless it’s to someone I can question) Before I post a question I have read so much on the topic ( and yes a lot of it is conflicting, such as this 1 )and is why I’m looking to you for “your” outcomes. I’m not looking to make commercial so I don’t care who’s way is right or wrong. I DO want to know how you made yours and how it turned out at what age, the math,what not to do etc.

Just want to say you all give me a smile

 

[BigMac]

Hi Kim;

Used to live in Langley before I moved to the windy city.
Had to give away 50 gal of wine when I moved, broke my heart!
A few trips to Blain will fix you up with everclear.

This year I started with 200lb of Zin grapes and pulled off 4.5+ gal of free run at 1.04 sg. At 3am in the morning I used the Pearson square and my best estimate and ended up with 6 gal of Zin port. Stop adding 190 proof when it stops fermenting and you are there. In 3 years you will get the hang of it.
The best part though is the 12 gal of Zin which fermented on an additional 30% of the skins. Man, this is looking nice and rich and super full bodied. This is going to be a winner. I’ll know in a year or two.
Cheers
Jim

 

[vernsgal]

aww! right back at you Dan

 

[cmason1957]

Just to be contrary, I went with the chapitalize method to raise alcohol. I started at 1.105. Fermented down to 1.050. Added sugar back up to 1.105. Fermented down to 1.050. More sugar back up to 1.090. Then left it to ferment down. It went to 1.010. This was 65 pounds of blackberries. Yeast nutriment was added with each sugar addition to help the yeast out. I did not use ec-1118, but don't recall what I did use. It said good to 18% also. I probably got a bit higher than that. As Seth points out, it is impossible to know for sure without accurate volumes at each point and I don't have those.

Now for taste and smell. I take the bung off and the blackberry smell overwhelms the area. The taste is very good, but needs to be a bit sweeter. I don't plan to add any other fortification alcohol. In about a year, I will know if this is the way I want to continue, but initial thoughts are yes.

 

[vernsgal]

Just to be contrary, I went with the chapitalize method to raise alcohol. I started at 1.105. Fermented down to 1.050. Added sugar back up to 1.105. Fermented down to 1.050. More sugar back up to 1.090. Then left it to ferment down. It went to 1.010. This was 65 pounds of blackberries. Yeast nutriment was added with each sugar addition to help the yeast out. I did not use ec-1118, but don't recall what I did use. It said good to 18% also. I probably got a bit higher than that. As Seth points out, it is impossible to know for sure without accurate volumes at each point and I don't have those.

Now for taste and smell. I take the bung off and the blackberry smell overwhelms the area. The taste is very good, but needs to be a bit sweeter. I don't plan to add any other fortification alcohol. In about a year, I will know if this is the way I want to continue, but initial thoughts are yes.

When you taste at a year be sure to post back here and let us know! Thanks!