Apple wine, questions with Jack Keller's recipe

[SeniorHobby]

Hello!
I am making my first apple wine. I have Jack Keller's book and I have a question with the recipe. Directions say to chop apples, sprinkle with pectic enzyme, cover. Toss apples every 2-3 hours for 12 hours, mist with distilled water. (I used water with lemon juice). Next step calls for adding yeast. Ferment and mist apples for 7 days, pull apple straining bags, squeeze, then return, squeeze and turn bags 3-4 times a day for three days. At this point it calls for adding sugar & yeast nutrient. Why would you not add the sugar at the beginning like most ferments? Would this be part of the process to breaking down the apples into a pulp? After this 10 day process the recipe doesn't say to bring the pulp up to a certain specific gravity. It calls for 1 lb, 10 oz of sugar for a 1 gallon recipe. I checked the sp gr. at this point and it was 1.000. My pH is 2.83, acid test came up to 95% acid. This is where I get stuck each time. Keeping in mind that the ferment will drop my acid by .5 will that raise my pH to where they are recommending it to be at 3.3. Now at this point is there even any yeast left? Also, I noticed a slight film over the top of the must along with a couple of white streaks. I'm hoping this isn't something that will wreck my batch as this whole process was quite an investment in time.
Thanks!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Greetings from where it is cold.

From a food safety standpoint I would not cut apples infecting lots of surfaces and then sprinkle enzyme and spray water creating a micro propagation environment.

The folks I know who make cider and apple wine start with juice. From the point of view of living in MinniFreeza I would put the apple on the deck for two days, then bring inside and start a ferment. Juice kinda weeps out of the apple once frozen and with a press I can get 80 to 82% juice yield.
Reading twice, if you have white film and streaks you probably have an infection/ non yeast fermentation. The home test is first smell for off flavors, if clean taste a small bit again checking for off flavor. If it seems OK well ,,,, as a factory person I couldn’t do the process Keller suggests ,,,, knowing that grandpa didn’t kill himself with fermenting or cows feeding silage might work.

 

[SeniorHobby]

View attachment 96670
Greetings from where it is cold.

From a food safety standpoint I would not cut apples infecting lots of surfaces and then sprinkle enzyme and spray water creating a micro propagation environment.

The folks I know who make cider and apple wine start with juice. From the point of view of living in minniFreeza I would put the apple on the deck for two days, then bring inside and start a ferment. Juice kinda weeps out of the apple once frozen and with a press I can get 80 to 82% juice yield.
Reading twice, if you have white film and streaks you probably have an infection/ non yeast fermentation. The home test is first smell for off flavors, if clean taste a small bit again checking for off flavor. If it seems OK well ,,,, as a factory person I couldn’t do the process Keller suggests ,,,, knowing that grandpa didn’t kill himself with fermenting or cows feeding silage might work.

Thanks Rice Guy,
That is absolutely not what I wanted to hear. Where did you put your apples between the picking of the apples and the frozen picture above. I'm not sure mine wouldn't have spoiled sitting that long. In my gut I thought the recipe didn't make sense, should have trusted it!! 65 lbs of apples!!

 

[Rice_Guy]

The apples and pears were in a garage, close to ambient temp till last Friday. (Sweating in European termonology) ,, It is interesting that both had pH of 3.9 (early season pressing came in at 3.2) TA guess from taste is low so the juices will need acid. ,,, Other note, the apple texture has changed from sweating so it was more like pressing apple sauce.

I still have the last tomatoes from the week we froze in the garage. If you had a late season apple variety they probably would have lasted till this week. It seems to take two days in a freezer to start getting any juice yield, it takes a while for them to actually freeze.

 

[SeniorHobby]

This is a picture of the apple wine thus far. I have tasted it and it tastes fine, sugary. Thoughts?

 

[ChuckD]

Before I had a press I made a few batches of wine by chopping the apples, adding sugar, and pouring in enough apple juice or cider to cover them. I made it like any other fruit wine… stirring twice a day until I got near 1.010 then scooped it into straining bags and squeezing out the juice. You still get a lot of gross lees this way but the wine was excellent.

 

[SeniorHobby]

Before I had a press I made a few batches of wine by chopping the apples, adding sugar, and pouring in enough apple juice or cider to cover them. I made it like any other fruit wine… stirring twice a day until I got near 1.010 then scooped it into straining bags and squeezing out the juice. You still get a lot of gross lees this way but the wine was excellent.

Hi Chuck,
Thanks, I hope I can still salvage it. What do you think about the appearance, it reminds me of what a human brain looks like! Kind of creepy.

 

[user 32114]

must can look horrific to say the least, just my 2 cents, I throw my apples into the chest type freezer, come time I just dump them in to a fermenting barrel. cover with pectic enzyme, add enough pure apple juice to cover everything, then cover with a sheet or lid ,,,what ever allows air, once thawed I stir twice daily , I use a kraft mayo stirrer in my drill, it is of course stainless and 316 food grade, the apples will turn to mush, IE-Apple sauce, once a must I run my SG to what I want add dry yeast, and stir till my SG is below .990 , and go from there , Jack Keller, was a good venter, but he always went to light on his fruit, and dang did he go somethings the hard way around,, lol.,,,
Dawg

 

[winemanden]

Just like a human brain, it's what's underneath that counts

 

[SeniorHobby]

must can look horrific to say the least, just my 2 cents, I throw my apples into the chest type freezer, come time I just dump them in to a fermenting barrel. cover with pectic enzyme, add enough pure apple juice to cover everything, then cover with a sheet or lid ,,,what ever allows air, once thawed I stir twice daily , I use a kraft mayo stirrer in my drill, it is of course stainless and 316 food grade, the apples will turn to mush, IE-Apple sauce, once a must I run my SG to what I want add dry yeast, and stir till my SG is below .990 , and go from there , Jack Keller, was a good venter, but he always went to light on his fruit, and dang did he go somethings the hard way around,, lol.,,,
Dawg

Thanks Hounddawg,
Thanks sounds like a much easier method than what I went through. Did you take the seeds out or leave the apples whole?

 

[SeniorHobby]

Just like a human brain, it's what's underneath that counts

I hope what's underneath is ok yet! HaHa I have two batches, one is fermenting yet (the one the looks like a brain), it tastes fine, not spoiled...we'll see

 

[user 32114]

Thanks Hounddawg,
Thanks sounds like a much easier method than what I went through. Did you take the seeds out or leave the apples whole?

i always leave my seeds till secondary.
yw
Dawg

 

[SeniorHobby]

i always leave my seeds till secondary.
yw
Dawg

Thanks Dawg, sounds like my kind of recipe!

 

[user 32114]

100 wine crafters 110 opinions. lol
I've read much about traditional wines, very, very compilated,, where as most country wines, fruit/berries are way more simple , that is, I want my wine to taste like the fruit/berry it is made from, now country wines need back sweetened to bring out that flavor, and the lighter the flavor the more pounds per gallon, now say banana, I freeze it, I FREEZE EVERYTHING,,, then I use pure apple juice or white grape juice no water, I always make extra, that way ever time I rack, I top off using my original must, I keep many thumb hole gallon jugs, they have a 38-400 thread, as well I keep half gallon, quart and pint jars with 38-400 threads, a 6.5 drilled bung will fit them all, for air locking extra top off must/wine, as well a #3 drilled bung or a small universal bung flipped upside down will allow you to air lock 750 ml wine bottles or 375 ml wine bottles,
as well you can get a carboy stirrer, a stainless rod with to plastic wings to stir carboys, I never have used a simple syrup. that adds water, only dry sugar, no yeast slurry either, i just dump my yeast on my must and stir twice daily,, time and patience is your most valuable ingredient,,
if you don't have a stash, then make some skitter pee to have a drinker, i bulk every thing a couple years, my skitter pee port tastes just like old time lemonade, FSG of 1.040 i add a fifth of pure grain alcohol to every 6 gallon carboy, zero alcohol taste, both lemon and pineapple hide the taste of alcohol. i use about a half a coffee cup to sleep on. very good, but all must be warned before drinking, no driving, no guns, no power tools, hehe and no walking, it taste like a child's drink,
Dawg

 

[SeniorHobby]

100 wine crafters 110 opinions. lol
I've read much about traditional wines, very, very compilated,, where as most country wines, fruit/berries are way more simple , that is, I want my wine to taste like the fruit/berry it is made from, now country wines need back sweetened to bring out that flavor, and the lighter the flavor the more pounds per gallon, now say banana, I freeze it, I FREEZE EVERYTHING,,, then I use pure apple juice or white grape juice no water, I always make extra, that way ever time I rack, I top off using my original must, I keep many thumb hole gallon jugs, they have a 38-400 thread, as well I keep half gallon, quart and pint jars with 38-400 threads, a 6.5 drilled bung will fit them all, for air locking extra top off must/wine, as well a #3 drilled bung or a small universal bung flipped upside down will allow you to air lock 750 ml wine bottles or 375 ml wine bottles,
as well you can get a carboy stirrer, a stainless rod with to plastic wings to stir carboys, I never have used a simple syrup. that adds water, only dry sugar, no yeast slurry either, i just dump my yeast on my must and stir twice daily,, time and patience is your most valuable ingredient,,
if you don't have a stash, then make some skitter pee to have a drinker, i bulk every thing a couple years, my skitter pee port tastes just like old time lemonade, FSG of 1.040 i add a fifth of pure grain alcohol to every 6 gallon carboy, zero alcohol taste, both lemon and pineapple hide the taste of alcohol. i use about a half a coffee cup to sleep on. very good, but all must be warned before drinking, no driving, no guns, no power tools, hehe and no walking, it taste like a child's drink,
Dawg

Whoa, I'm stumbling just reading this! But It sounds like your house is the one I wanna come over to for a party!! I do freeze everything! I should have left may apples whole though, and saved myself a lot of time. I do have about 20 gallons of wild grape, Concord grape, Frontenac grape & red raspberry aging. I do have a few more fruits in the freeze I need to get to yet. And yes, bulk aging is what I do to, as well as lots of container sizes for topping off! I do like the idea of country wine making. This way you always have a variety to choose from. I do have to get better at putting half away for aging and only drinking the first half! My celler of aged wines is pretty thin!

 

[SeniorHobby]

Before I had a press I made a few batches of wine by chopping the apples, adding sugar, and pouring in enough apple juice or cider to cover them. I made it like any other fruit wine… stirring twice a day until I got near 1.010 then scooped it into straining bags and squeezing out the juice. You still get a lot of gross lees this way but the wine was excellent.

Hi Chuck,
I'm rereading your post, did you add sugar based on a recipe or did you test it when you added the apple juice or cider to get it to a certain specific gravity. If so, what target am I looking at for the start of the ferment. I like the idea of freezing the apples, adding the juice, letting it ferment then squeeze the pulp. I was spraying the pulp with lemon juice to try to keep the apples from browing. Leaving the skins, seeds in prevents a lot of browning.

 

[SeniorHobby]

must can look horrific to say the least, just my 2 cents, I throw my apples into the chest type freezer, come time I just dump them in to a fermenting barrel. cover with pectic enzyme, add enough pure apple juice to cover everything, then cover with a sheet or lid ,,,what ever allows air, once thawed I stir twice daily , I use a kraft mayo stirrer in my drill, it is of course stainless and 316 food grade, the apples will turn to mush, IE-Apple sauce, once a must I run my SG to what I want add dry yeast, and stir till my SG is below .990 , and go from there , Jack Keller, was a good venter, but he always went to light on his fruit, and dang did he go somethings the hard way around,, lol.,,,
Dawg

Hi Dawg,
I'm making notes on what method not to do next year as I am on the verge of a not successful ferment. I like your idea above, just wondering what specific gravity you shot for as the starter. I'm also assuming you added sugar after the apples softened and were mixed.
Thanks!

 

[Rice_Guy]

I am on the verge of a not successful ferment.

From what I see the yeast is dropping the gravity, ie your ferment is successful. It just might be closer to skeeter pee than you planned on.

 

[ChuckD]

Hi Chuck,
I'm rereading your post, did you add sugar based on a recipe or did you test it when you added the apple juice or cider to get it to a certain specific gravity. If so, what target am I looking at for the start of the ferment. I like the idea of freezing the apples, adding the juice, letting it ferment then squeeze the pulp. I was spraying the pulp with lemon juice to try to keep the apples from browing. Leaving the skins, seeds in prevents a lot of browning.

Yeah, the Keller recipe sounds like a lot of work. The first time I just followed a recipe. After that I tested the SG on day two and adjusted to 1.095-1.000 before adding the yeast. I looked at my notes and I was using 6-8 lbs of sugar for 30 lbs of apples.

You could use water but I wanted maximum apple flavor so I added juice to cover the apples. I also topped up the carboy with juice after squeezing out the pulp.

 

[SeniorHobby]

Yeah, the Keller recipe sounds like a lot of work. The first time I just followed a recipe. After that I tested the SG on day two and adjusted to 1.095-1.000 before adding the yeast. I looked at my notes and I was using 6-8 lbs of sugar for 30 lbs of apples.

You could use water but I wanted maximum apple flavor so I added juice to cover the apples. I also topped up the carboy with juice after squeezing out the pulp.

Hi ChuckD,
I like the idea of adding juice, then you get a more robust flavor! Thanks for the help, I'll be looking back on this next year!