I am wondering about the aroma of the Winexpert kits. I have made the private reserve chardonnay and it has a wonderful aroma. I have made several private reserve red wine kits and the aroma is just not there for me.I will say that I have tasted after 6 months so it might be early,but do you guys have experience with that? Does it open up after a year or two in the carboy/bottle?
WineXpert Aroma kit wine
- Thread starter Xlev
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
6 months is a bit early for the Private Reserve reds. I generally don't expect much from until at least the 9 month mark and prefer 12 months and longer. Whites on the other hand just taste good sooner.
Bmd2k1
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
- Messages
- 947
- Reaction score
- 694
So other than Time....
Are there any ways to improve a Red's aroma prior to bottling?
Cheers!
Kits just plain lack aroma and varietal character, especially reds. Probably due to the concentration process. They've gotten better over the years with newer methods, but still a ways off.
Heavily depends on if you are doing just what comes in the kit or if you are just using the juice from the kit and upgrading everything else.
To put it in perspective, the first ever wine we made was classic wine expert Cabernet Sauvignon. Just followed kit directions and used everything in the kit, came out little aroma, light to medium body and not really complex.
8 months later after taking classes, research, Scott’s labs, etc. Made another Cabernet, only used the juice from the kit and nothing else. Keep in mind still a classic kit, and came out full body, super complex, excellent aroma and guarantee you it beats out any $30-$40 bottle on the market and it’s a classic level.
A lot of people don’t understand that if you use what what in the kits and follow the directions it makes “drinkable fun wine” which is what it was intended for. But if you want to take next steps you have to research. If what i am saying is not true just take a look at the international wine mag competition. “Kit wines” place better almost each year than “grape juice”
What are the changes you make to your wine?
I can share my 2 cents.After aging a wine in a 20l (5 gal) barell for 6 months I found that I got amazing aroma from a WE classic sangiovese kit,that microoxigenation worked its magic.
Also for the other wines,with time Im seing more aroma,but I agree that the varietal character is not quite there,a lot of the reds taste similar to an extent
Started making kits back in 2011. Found this site in 2014. Have been trying various tweaks and such for 10 years now. Kits simply won't produce a product comparable to better commercial wines. If you're happy with $10 - $20 commercial wines, then you won't be disappointed aside from the lack of aroma and varietal character, especially with the reds.
That said, I still make and drink 90% kit wines as it's a simple enjoyable hobby and it saves me a ton of money vs. comparable store bought wines. However, when it comes to special occasions, we splurge for something impressive and memorable. But in 13 years of making wine, that has yet to come from our own stock.
I understand where you are coming from but have to respectfully disagree. It would have to be in your process or something or how you are tweaking it because if you check winemaker mag competition results it will prove what I’m saying.
Everything except the juice. So upgrades are
Yeast
Adding fermaid o
Yeast starter
Upgrading oak chips (the ones that come in the kits are like saw dust compared to real oak chips)
Upgrading oak cubes
Upgrading bentonite
Upgrade chitosan and kiesesol
Right temp conditions
How good a racking you are etc
Also if you ever worked in the industry unless you are buying a bottle over $80(and that’s me being generous) 9 times out of 10 they are using mega purple , and other additives to stretch the product and make the flavor. If you don’t believe me, then ask yourself how a bottle of $50 commerical wine is able to sit straight up and not at its side at Walmart for days in bright light and in the process be on a hot truck also above 70 temps without spoiling.
I've tasted plenty of other kit makers wines and they're all similar to varying degrees. Wine competitions are mostly useless. Try hosting a blind tasting with friends and family, with a few of your wines and an array of commercial wines from $10 up to whatever you're comfortable spending, to see where your wine actually rates. We did this regularly over the years and our wines did surprisingly well for their cost, but the highly rated commercial wines would always prevail.
Because you’re basing the taste off what “Commerical” is. That’s like saying commerical tomatoes are superior to real because that’s the taste we are used to. But again to each their own. A lot of people thing ketchup from the store is great but that’s not actually what real ketchup taste like. Again if you haven’t worked in the wine industry and seen what actually goes on behind closed doors than there is no point in going back in forth on this post.
And I’m not just talking kits. Regular juice beats any commercial wine as well. Think I’m joking? Go to the store today, get yourself a root beer kit, and then go try a root beer from the store.
The reason you think comercial wines are better is because you don’t understand how business and economics works. Commerical wineries are using spoiled grapes, and rotten grapes and using additives to make them still taste what you think wine should taste like. Do they want to do that? No but if you understand how business works they have to because if Walmart is asking you for 50,000 bottles you have to do something.
It’s the same thing with any other product. Yes Cole Haan can make better dress shoes than any home shoe maker if they ONLY MADE 1. But they have to make 100,000 so they have to stretch material, and other things.
At lastly, you comparing wines prices shows me you don’t understand economics because if you did you would know the price of the bottle is actually the name your paying for, not that actually price it’s really worth…
And if you been in the wine business that long, this means your older than me by a lot, so it seems you should know the home is better than commerical
I'm basing the taste off what myself, my friends, and my family prefer. That is all that matters to me and all that should matter to you and yours. Do whatever you like. I've never had a commercial tomato compare to home grown, but I've had plenty of commercial wines blow my kits away by a large margin. Are there home winemakers that can make killer wine that will compare to the best wineries? Yes, but they're not starting with concentrate. They're starting with fresh grapes sourced from notorious vineyards.
Commercial wineries are the ones that supply the juice that kits are made from. Do you think they reserve their best juice for kit manufacturers?And I’m not just talking kits. Regular juice beats any commercial wine as well. Think I’m joking? Go to the store today, get yourself a root beer kit, and then go try a root beer from the store.
The reason you think comercial wines are better is because you don’t understand how business and economics works. Commerical wineries are using spoiled grapes, and rotten grapes and using additives to make them still taste what you think wine should taste like. Do they want to do that? No but if you understand how business works they have to because if Walmart is asking you for 50,000 bottles you have to do something.
It’s the same thing with any other product. Yes Cole Haan can make better dress shoes than any home shoe maker if they ONLY MADE 1. But they have to make 100,000 so they have to stretch material, and other things.
At lastly, you comparing wines prices shows me you don’t understand economics because if you did you would know the price of the bottle is actually the name your paying for, not that actually price it’s really worth…
And if you been in the wine business that long, this means your older than me by a lot, so it seems you should know the home is better than commerical
Seems you don't understand business and economics. Wine prices reflect quality and value as with any other product, otherwise the competition takes over. Supply and demand.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2018
- Messages
- 1,511
- Reaction score
- 886
Chitosan and kieselsol have been known to strip color and nose. Stopped using them. I have even stopped using bentonite. I always bulk age for 12 months or more for reds. Always make a starter with Go Ferm and add Fermaid O when SG drops to around 1.040 or so. My question about WineXpert kits is, are they really worth the $200-$300 price tag? How would you compare WineXpert to FWK?
I haven’t seen a wine expert kit for $300. Seen then depending on quality level from $80 to $225. But i would definitely say yes. If you think about it 6 gallon of juice from grapes is about 90 to 100 pounds of grapes. Which is around $90-$110 dollars. The other like $50-$60 dollars is the marketing the box and the stuff that comes in the kit to get it to the price. Plus you are getting the juice from place 9 times out of 10 you won’t be able to get it from yourself. I would say it’s a pretty good deal if you have the funds for it of course.
I haven’t purchase a FWK kit, but heard very great things about it. FWK kits all come from California and from what I heard they have a difference process of making their kits plus more grape skin packs so that’s an area where they best out winexpert and RJ’s. . The only con i could see about them (again don’t quote me on this) is since all of the come from California I think they may force grow a lot of the grapes since really outside of a Cabernet, majority of the grapes are not native and don’t grow from cali. Cali and American wines are more known for their high alcohol levels. Overseas is more know for their taste and less alcohol. So just something to note.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2018
- Messages
- 1,511
- Reaction score
- 886
So if I am understanding you correctly, the juice in Winexpert kits is source from Italy not California. If so I would be interested in trying one. Are there grape skins and seeds included? Here is a price from Northern Brewer. Pretty close to $300. Is the yield 6 gallons?
Italian Super Tuscan w/ Grape Skins - Winexpert Private Reserve
$279.99
$154 plus shipping from Label Peelers. If you're interested in Super Tuscan, RJ Spagnols has been the best example I've made, but it's a bit more expensive. Homebrewohio has it for $195 shipped.
https://www.homebrewohio.com/wine-ingredient-kit-en-primeur-winery-series-italian-super-tuscan/
Looks like Label Peelers is offering free shipping on the WineExpert kit:
https://labelpeelers.com/wine-makin...ivate-reserve-italian-super-tuscan-wine-kits/
Similar threads
