Avante - Fav vinos to use it in?

[distancerunner]

You’ll be amazed. No odor. Should complete.

Co-innoculate ML bacteria?

 

[Bmd2k1]

You’ll be amazed. No odor. Should complete.

Co-innoculate ML bacteria?

I did not - haven't used ML bacteria so far? Would ya recommend it & for what vinos?

Cheers!

 

[distancerunner]

For almost any red, use it or risk having MLF start on its own. While probably doesn’t generate as much gas as yeast, still it’s not something you want to have happen in the bottle. Anybody who would like to weigh in on this is welcome.

Don’t have to start it simultaneously. But it’ starts best when there are nutrients present. Or so it’s said. I’ve done it multiple times after alcoholic fermentation was complete. There was no problem with the MLF bacteria doing their job.

The bacteria convert malic acid to lactic acid. Malic = sharp think green apples. Lactic = soft think milk.

 

[Bmd2k1]

For almost any red, use it or risk having MLF start on its own. While probably doesn’t generate as much gas as yeast, still it’s not something you want to have happen in the bottle. Anybody who would like to weigh in on this is welcome.

Don’t have to start it simultaneously. But it’ starts best when there are nutrients present. Or so it’s said. I’ve done it multiple times after alcoholic fermentation was complete. There was no problem with the MLF bacteria doing their job.

The bacteria convert malic acid to lactic acid. Malic = sharp think green apples. Lactic = soft think milk.

Are kits good candidates for MLF??

 

[winemaker81]

A lot of folks talk about MLF happening spontaneously, yet there is so much conversation about how hard it is to get MLF going.

I have never had MLF in the bottle, so while it can happen, it doesn't appear to be a significant problem. I also use K-meta, which may explain my results.

Are kits good candidates for MLF??

No. Kits are balanced for acid, and a few who tried it reported less than stellar results.

 

[Ohio Bob]

For almost any red, use it or risk having MLF start on its own. While probably doesn’t generate as much gas as yeast, still it’s not something you want to have happen in the bottle. Anybody who would like to weigh in on this is welcome.

I absolutely agree. I might even add MLF is applicable for any red, sans sparkling varieties.

 

[distancerunner]

A lot of folks talk about MLF happening spontaneously, yet there is so much conversation about how hard it is to get MLF going.

I have never had MLF in the bottle, so while it can happen, it doesn't appear to be a significant problem. I also use K-meta, which may explain my results.


No. Kits are balanced for acid, and a few who tried it reported less than stellar results.

Agreed. However, there are reports that the bacteria can live in barrels. Since we always do MLF on reds we can’t add any data to the legend.

 

[winemaker81]

Agreed. However, there are reports that the bacteria can live in barrels. Since we always do MLF on reds we can’t add any data to the legend.

MLF is a discussion that is a completely different topic from all others. Maybe it's not a topic, it's an entire forum.

There are so many nuances to this topic. You're doing MLF year after year, so it's probably just not the barrel, it's your entire environment that's saturated with MLB. In your situation, it's entirely possible that MLF will happen spontaneously.

Folks working with stainless steel and glass do not have that. Well, maybe the environment, but not the containers.

I have no clue if the original owners of my barrels did MLF. If they did, it may be in the barrels. Or it may not. I have no evidence either way.

Besides, I was taught a strict K-meta protocol, which I follow. If what I'm told is true, the K-meta I use nerfs any possibility of MLF.

Short answers all fail on this topic, don't they?

 

[distancerunner]

Yep.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Using Avante for the 1st time now - just started a Chilean Carmenere

Hopes are High!

Cheers!

Racked 2day into bulk aging vessel on 1 Med+ toast American Oak spiral --- looks and smells great!

See ya in 6months Carmenere!

Cheers!

 

[winemaker81]

I re-read Renaissance's description of Avante/Adante, and spotted this:

• Consumes around 25-30% of malic acid present during the alcoholic fermentation

 

[Bmd2k1]

Starting an FWK Tavola Zinfandel w/Avante 2day. OG=1.100

Cheers!

 

[distancerunner]

Starting an FWK Tavola Zinfandel w/Avante 2day. OG=1.100

Cheers!

Never made a kit so don't know if changing the yeast or anything else is a good idea or not. It's an even bet that changing yeast will not be a problem. You should be happy with the results from the Avante.

 

[winemaker81]

Never made a kit so don't know if changing the yeast or anything else is a good idea or not. It's an even bet that changing yeast will not be a problem. You should be happy with the results from the Avante.

Kits are not any different from any other type of wine, from a yeast strain choice POV.

 

[distancerunner]

Kits are not any different from any other type of wine, from a yeast strain choice POV.

I didn't think so. But from reading about kits here it seems that they are engineered to the point that improvisation isn't a good idea. Hence the caveat.

I don't want to lead anyone astray because of my lack of experience and I'm pretty sure someone will correct me when I'm wrong.

 

[winemaker81]

I didn't think so. But from reading about kits here it seems that they are engineered to the point that improvisation isn't a good idea. Hence the caveat.

I don't want to lead anyone astray because of my lack of experience and I'm pretty sure someone will correct me when I'm wrong.

Nope. The fact that a must is a reconstituted kit is not a factor in many decisions regarding fermentation. Once it's reconstituted, it's juice.

Choice of yeast can make a huge difference. This is easily proven.

Improvisation works if you understand what you're working with. A kit from a quality vendor, when reconstituted to the vendor's spec, is a known quantity.

At that point, it's no different from any other must. The kit has the advantage of having a fairly good SG, TA, and pH. It's not likely to be outstanding, but it's also never going to be bad.

MLF and cold stabilization don't work for kits, because the acid is already balanced. Some folks fail to understand that not every technique applies to all wines. MLF applies to wines that are high in malic acid, while cold stabilization applies to wines high in tartaric acid.

 

[Shurt1073]

Racked 2day into bulk aging vessel on 1 Med+ toast American Oak spiral --- looks and smells great!

See ya in 6months Carmenere!

Cheers!

I started my Chilean Carmenere in August 2023 so I'm only a couple months ahead of you! While on vacation in September I was able to try a Carmenere and it was the best wine of the week. Exciting times ... now we wait.

 

[winemaker81]

That was a nice read thank you. I see you used a lots of skins for 1 kit.If you did it again,would you use the same proportions of skin to juice?

I have an update -- last year we used the pomace from 8 lugs with one 23 liter kit.

We just finished the pressing of the first run wines, which was 8 lugs Cabernet Sauvignon, 8 lugs Cabernet Franc, and 4 lugs Merlot, all fermented in 4 lug batches. Following a medium pressing (my guesstimate, as I have a #40 basket press), we divided the pomace between two 32 gallon brutes (and poured a 23 liter juice bucket over each, so each Brute has 10 lug's worth of pomace.

I have no idea how I'm going to stir this. My back already hurts, thinking about it.

The goal is to get 16 US gallons / 60 liters from the batch, so we can fill a 55 liter barrel. If we fall a bit short, we'll have enough of the other wines for topup, so we're good.