Back sweetening and potassium sorbate

[JB1956]

I have a carboy of Riesling clearing that I had previously back sweetened. I added potassium sorbate at the time I back sweetened but now my wife feels it needs to be a bit sweeter. Should I add more sorbate when I add sweetener or will the last dose cover it?

 

[cmason1957]

The last dose will cover you, and I hope you added kmeta at the same time as the sorbate.

 

[salcoco]

I would suggest that next time wait until wine has completed clearing before doing any additives.

 

[JB1956]

Thank you both. The advice is much appreciated.

 

[KrisB]

Hi - New winemaker here with a beginner question that I think fits this thread. I have my first pino grigio (made from a bucket of juice) racked into a 6 gallon carboy after fermenting to dryness, clarifying, and adding KMeta and sorbate. After racking I back-sweetened and all looks good. However, I've noticed during the week since I've back sweetened that the couple of times I've popped the stopper on the carboy, I get a small "puff". Should I be worried that I have residual yeast working on the added sugar? I was planning to add more sulfite before bottling and I wonder if I should add some additional sorbate, too? Thanks for any insight!

 

[sour_grapes]

Hi - New winemaker here with a beginner question that I think fits this thread. I have my first pino grigio (made from a bucket of juice) racked into a 6 gallon carboy after fermenting to dryness, clarifying, and adding KMeta and sorbate. After racking I back-sweetened and all looks good. However, I've noticed during the week since I've back sweetened that the couple of times I've popped the stopper on the carboy, I get a small "puff". Should I be worried that I have residual yeast working on the added sugar? I was planning to add more sulfite before bottling and I wonder if I should add some additional sorbate, too? Thanks for any insight!

It could be renewed fermentation, or it could be just outgassing of what CO2 was already there.

Do you have a hydrometer? The easiest way to know is to measure the specific gravity (SG) and see if it is changing over time.

And welcome to WMT!

 

[KrisB]

It could be renewed fermentation, or it could be just outgassing of what CO2 was already there.

Do you have a hydrometer? The easiest way to know is to measure the specific gravity (SG) and see if it is changing over time.

And welcome to WMT!

That's a good idea I'll try that. Thanks for the reply! I also just checked my notes and I added the KMeta and sorbate after racking from the primary but before clarifying. I don't know if that order makes any difference but I'm questioning myself on the order now.

 

[G259]

The main thing to know is that, after the Kmeta and Sorbate are added, fermentation will slow down and stall. Wine is very forgiving, and if you mess the order up before then, generally, you will be OK. No need to sweat it. There is a 'best way', but if you alter it, you'll be OK. Time takes care of most problems.

 

[KrisB]

The main thing to know is that, after the Kmeta and Sorbate are added, fermentation will slow down and stall. Wine is very forgiving, and if you mess the order up before then, generally, you will be OK. No need to sweat it. There is a 'best way', but if you alter it, you'll be OK. Time takes care of most problems.

Many thanks - I've heard that time and patience are a big part of successful winemaking.

 

[winemaker81]

@KrisB, it sounds like you did things too quickly. This is not a biggie -- if this is the worst mistake you make, call it a win!

Based upon what you said, my guess is that the wine is outgassing. If the wine fermented to dryness (SG <= 0.998 for 3 days and not changing), fermentation was complete, so the sorbate + K-meta should have worked. What dosage did you use?

What was the SG before and after backsweetening? If the SG is the same as it was after backsweetening, and it's not changing now, then you are good. Just give the wine time.

DO NOT add more sorbate. At this time we don't know what is happening, so add nothing, other than K-meta if you rack.

Kit vendors use the process ferment, rack, degas, and fine -- in that order -- as CO2 will suspend particles in the wine, so it won't necessarily clear properly. You can manually degas now, but I recommend doing nothing. Let the wine bulk age for 3 months. The degassing will occur and you may get more sediment dropping. Generally speaking, don't stabilize or backsweetening until nearing bottling time.

 

[KrisB]

Bryan, Thanks for the insights and encouragement. Here's some specifics -

* 23Nov2021 Primary fermentation completed. Racked. Est 5 1/2 to 6 gallons. SG 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp KMeta and 2 1/2 tsp sorbate. Stirred using mixer on drill. Added 1 packet Kieselsol from SuperKleer KC. Mixed.
* 24Nov2021 Added 1 chitosan packet from SuperKleer KC. Mixed.
* Allowed to settle for about 7/8 weeks
* 17Jan2022 racked to 6G carboy. Added 20oz of simple syrup (2parts sugar, 1part water, small amt lemon juice, heated then cooled) to 5 1/2 to 6 G wine. Mixed. No SG reading (rookie mistake).
* 30Jan2022 SG = 1.004

This morning when I checked there was no "puff" so maybe it was outgassing and it's almost done?

Thanks again!

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks for the insights and encouragement

Happy to help! The hardest part about being a beginner at anything, is the unknowns. With regard to winemaking specifically, there are numerous natural processes that we may be able to guide, but not control. It makes things interesting.

If it were me? I'd still not bottle for 2 more months. The wine is roughly 2.5 months old, give it more time to settle.

The guys that taught me used the 1-3-3 rule. 1 week (fermentation), 3 weeks (clearing), and 3 months (bulk aging). Barrel aging was longer, typically a year total, but whites and lighter reds were often bottled at the 4 month mark. [A lot of these guys were drinking at the 4.00001 mark, so patience wasn't always present!]

Kits changed the game enabling bottling after 4 to 8 weeks. I did this sometimes, but in just the last few years I came to the conclusion that just because I can, doesn't mean I should. More time in bulk makes a more consistent wine in the bottle, and it gives you time to handle things like more sediment dropping (better in bulk than in the bottle!). Generally speaking, whites and fruits benefit from 4 to 8 months in bulk, and reds 6 to 12. There are exceptions to every rule, so judge each batch on its own merits.

 

[KrisB]

Bryan, thanks again! I like the 1-3-3 rule - I'll give that a try as a guide next batch. i appreciate the advice - this seems like a great group.

 

[winemaker81]

I like the 1-3-3 rule - I'll give that a try as a guide next batch.

One thing to keep in mind is that every batch is different, so judge them as individuals.

I recently bottled a FWK Barbera (pre-Tavola, but essentially a Tavola) I started in August, bottling at the 5 month mark. I made it as a quicker drinker, no skin packs and 1 oz medium toast Hungarian cubes as aging oak (4 months in carboy). I tasted samples over a few weeks, decided it wasn't going to benefit from more bulk aging, and bottled.

Contrary to this, I have other FWK Forte kits that will be barrel aged. These won't be bottled before the 12 month mark, as both batches are much heavier bodied, and probably won't be ready to drink until the 2 year mark (or longer).