Beginner 100% strawberry, no water?

[Ijsbiertje]

Hi.
I’m trying to make wine for the first time.
Does anybody has experience making strawberry's wine from 100% strawberry and no water? I read about it on an old tread and wanted to try it myself.

So I went out and bought 8kg of fresh strawberries I cleaned them and I mashed them. Eventually I had 7kg of mash. Then I froze them. A couple days later I thawed them. Once the temperature of the must was about 12 degrees Celsius I added some pectic enzyme and let that do it’s work for 12h. Then I added some sulphite and waited for 12h.
It was difficult to read the hydrometer because of the fruit particles ithe must. I guess I measured about 1022 SG.
I set the goal at 1092 SG. Took the refractometer and added sugar till about 22,5 brix. I hope I was about right on this conversion
Then I added some yeast nutrients and put in the yeast starter. I also used Lalvin 71b
This was yesterday around 11pm. This morning a little cap had formed in the middle of the bucket and it smelled yeasty. I gave it a stir. At about 5pm there was a cap covering the whole bucket. Again I pushed the cap down into the must. I just measured the temperature of the must and it is about 25 degrees Celsius. I’m trying to cool it down a little in the fridge till about 19 degrees. Then I will remove it from the fridge and put the bucket on a colder spot on the ground. I guess 25 degrees is too hot and the yeast will blow trough all the sugars in a few days…
I hope I didn’t make big mistakes already.
I’m wondering when I should remove the cap (foamy fruit-parts) from the must? Should I wait to remove this until I measure about an SG of 1020 and I transfer the must to a carboy? Or do I remove this sooner?

 

[Ijsbiertje]

A friendly member already told me to remove the wine from the fridge. I removed it and the temperature of the must was about 20 degrees C

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Today I will push down the cap on top of the must down again every couple of hours.
I hope i'm not making a mistake leaving the fruitparticles in the must. It looks like these particles break down little by little every day..

 

[montanarick]

I'd let it keep perking until SP get down to 0.998

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Ok. So keep the fruitparticles in the must until SP gets down to 0.998?

Thank you!

 

[Rice_Guy]

first, welcome to WineMakingTalk

The strongest strawberry I have tasted was from a winery which collected the juice that leaks off of frozen berries which wind up in a bakery, ,,> good technique for creating strong flavor.
For improved juice yield you added pectase, ,,> good technique
? do you have something to press the pulp with? ,,, what I would use is a nylon press bag containing pulp in a perforated cylinder. (Going back to mom’s generation she used a flour sack (pillow case). Yield will be better if there is some way to keep pressure on it and periodically mix it. If you don’t have a way to press juice I would start pulling pulp a liter at a time, one I have done on some hard juices is to let the pulp drip in a coffee filter in the fridge over night, ,,, there will be learning curve on what tools you have to do it with.
I don’t see much gain by having pulp in your primary fermentor. The theory on letting pulp in the fermentor is that we are extracting flavor into water used for stretching the fruit into a larger batch. Since you have no added water you won’t have lots of gain by an extended ferment on the pulp.
Two recommendations from the vinters club are that fruit wines are more likely to oxidize than red grape so keep them under an airlock in the primary, (my standard is use a silicone cover or an air lock while there still is active CO2 being produced) ,, second trick is that fruit flavors are retained with a low temp ferment and occasionally I control a fridge for 10 or 15C with the wine.
Do you have a way to measure pH? Wine with a pH at 3.2 or 3.3 has longer shelf life.

For comparison strawberry juice;
2020: 1.040/ pH 4.01/ TA 1.23% (garden)
2019: 1.044/ pH 3.50/ TA 1.13% (store)
2019: 1.030/ pH 3.57/ TA 1.06% (I picked from my garden)
translation for first timer= there are enough grams of acid to give a strong flavor but on very ripe berries the pH is high which reduces the shelf life (good fruit wines are below pH 3.5). Also your gravity numbers at the start are in a normal range for early picked berries (which I do so birds don’t damage them)

All in all, your process will work, it should have a good flavor but drink it in a year or so.

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi ljsbiertje and welcome. This question is not intended to hijack your post but to (hopefully) prevent one common problem down the road.

Rice_Guy, You are a food scientist. What is the reason that so many people who make strawberry wine find that the color drops from bright red to strawberry blonde? Is this because of a lack of acidity and too little tannin in the wine? Is it because they use boiling water to help extract flavor but the heat "fixes" the color to the fruit which they then remove? Is there a method of ensuring that the color remains in the wine?
Thanks

 

[montanarick]

Ok. So keep the fruitparticles in the must until SP gets down to 0.998?

Thank you!

that's what I would do. then strain as much out as you can through a fine mesh nylon bag. Let sit in carboy until gross lees have settled - could be a week or two. Don't forget to minimize head space and use K-meta

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Thanks for the input and the nice welcome!

@Rice_Guy : I have a cheespress that could give a constant pressure. I sure will give it some thought to use it in combination with a perforated can. That is a good idea. Thanks.
It looks like most of the pulp is kind of less fleshy. Smaller particles now. I guess the alcohol is eating it
Tomorrow i will take it out. I think it had enough contact with the wine. And indeed maybe in the future i just cold press the fruit.
I read about when it stays to long in the primary you get a bitter taste from the seeds. I will put the strained must in a container with an airlock. For now the yeast is very active and producing lost of Co2. So i guess one more night without an airlock should be okay (i hope)
I have a ph meter. Before i put in the yeast it had a ph between 3,4 and 3,5. My meter only measures till 0,0...
So tomorrow after straining i will measure it again. But i don't think that the yeast changes the ph. Or am i wrong about this?

I sure am happy that it is possible to make a fruitwine from all fruit and no added water.
Can someone explain me why people use water when making a fruit wine? I think you lose so much flavor of the fruit when you dilute it with water. It is possible with grapes so my guess is that the ph of pure must of other fruit is too low to start a ferment or the wine will come out to acidic? If this is the problem, why not adjust the ph of the must with potassium carbonate or something like that? Just my beginners thoughts

@montanarick: Thank you for the advice! What SO2 lvl do you recommand when i put it in a carboy? Do I put in more than normal because of more risk of oxidation?

Thank you all for your advice!
Greatly appreciated

 

[Rice_Guy]

* the wineries have cost of goods and some home wine makers have to buy what they ferment. Water is relatively cheap so one can make a larger volume by adding water, sugar and acid.
* acid which is in many foods creates an acid reaction on the taste buds, in grape wine the goal is0.5% to 0.7% (calculated as tartaric acid/ US). The numbers I gave say that strawberries usually have more acid than tastes good. ,,, tap water has no acid so to speak so one can cut the acid taste by diluting the acid with water.
* many consumers are not educated, they are exposed to wine which matches numbers grape folks use and don’t know better.
* style, some wineries do high solids/ flavor wines but they are rare. ,,,, a high acid wine should also be a highly back sweetened wine, ,,, how do you like your sugar? ,,, wet?

had a ph between 3,4 and 3,5. My meter only measures till 0,0....
Can someone explain me why people use water when making a fruit wine? I think you lose so much flavor of the fruit when you dilute it with water.

* the technical answer on free SO2 is look at a calculator as WinemakerMagazine.com on the web. The needed K meta is influenced by pH, temperature, alcohol, dissolved oxygen, other. ,,,, for a quick and dirty I assume there is no residual SO and add 0.2gm per gallon most of the time and a Campden tablet typically is used on a five gallon carboy. When you get to bottle time, some folks can taste free SO2 so at this point it is good to try to be accurate.

 

[montanarick]

rule of thumb is 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons. see more info as Rice has indicated or at Guide to SO2 Management and SO2 Calculator | MoreWine

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Hi all,

Yesterday I filtered out the seeds and residue (fruit particles) and did some measurements. The yeast is in now for 2 days and 21 hours.

SG: 1022
SO2: 110 mg/L
TA: 9gr/l
PH: 3,2

The
I was amazed that I still had so much SO2. I stirred 3 times a day. So I guess no need to add extra sulphite?
Is the TA ok with 9gr/l?
PH dropped significantly. Should I adjust it with potassium carbonate? Or should I wait until it runs dry?

My feeling says now that it is filtered, i should stabilize the temperature around 19°C - 20°C and slow down the bubbles so that there is more time for esthers to develop. Just a feeling i guess

I think i should let it run dry around these temperature, let it settle, rack it off and top it. Than age it. Maybe with some wood chips?

What are your thoughts?

Thank you all!

 

[Scooter68]

Adjustments to pH should not be done during a fermentation. The CO2 is increasing the acidity during this time.
SO2 also should never be added during an ferment unless you are going to also add potassium sorbate and try to STOP fermentation.

 

[Rice_Guy]

@Ijsbiertje You are running more numbers than most folks on this site or in the vinters club.
@Scooter68 has good advice.
The pH number and gravity are not stable as long as free CO2 is in the wine. pH of 3 will not kill yeast, a decrease is normal while they are active and seems to increase on a finished wine by 0.2 units. As to the free SO2 ,I have seen an article saying that 10ppm is a base line/ low level where sulphite is inactive so I wouldn’t be concerned (? Scott labs). ,,,
My preference on temp is 10 to 15C. Temperature in an active fermentation is about two degrees higher than the air temperature.

 

[Ijsbiertje]

@Rice_Guy: I could lower the temperature in the cold soak but I found on the datasheet of the yeast that it works between 15°C and 30°C.
Would you lower it?

Thanks

 

[Rice_Guy]

A fermentation rate temperature study
View attachment 75666

The test above was with EC1118. From memory I shouldn’t have run below 10C with that yeast, but I did and it worked. (good fermentations are not a month- there is a risk other organisms will outcompete)
The specifications are not black and white, they are conditions where the yeast world is efficient. In the bread industry we proof with yeast, then freeze, have the homemaker proof again and then bake. The yeast did not die in the freezing operation and yours will not die at 10C.
15 is a good temp. A bigger question is what is practical, unless you have temperature controlled refrigeration you are stuck with something that is easy to accomplish

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Thank you for your input.
I have a fridge that is temperature controlled but for this trial I’m just using a soak method. I lowered the temperature around 15 - 15,5 degrees. You can see the fermentation slowing down. Big difference from 19 to 15,5. Easy enough to get the temp pretty stable.. For longer periods of stable temperature, just increase the buffer capacity.
Next batch I wil surely use the fridge. Just set and forget

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Saturday the bubbels stopped. I have a small layer of sediment or dead yeast cells on the bottom (5mm)
What should I do next. Should I keep it around 15-16°C for a couple more days before measuring SG, PH, TA, SO2?
The most is still cloudy. Do I wait until it clears up and all has settled, rack off and then measure? Do I do this clearing up at even colder temperatures than 15°C? So many questions

Thank you!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Saturday the bubbels stopped. I have a small layer of sediment or dead yeast cells on the bottom (5mm)
What should I do next. Should I keep it around 15-16°C for a couple more days before measuring SG, PH, TA, SO2?
The most is still cloudy. Do I wait until it clears up and all has settled, rack off and then measure? Do I do this clearing up at even colder temperatures than 15°C? So many questions

Thank you!

1) when a winemaker is running 15C he normally keeps it there, since you are doing a bath I have to step back and say what is practical, ex you do a vacation for a week
2) a first racking is a week, second is a month. Remember oxygen is the enemy of wine so the less you rack the better. Some rack on a schedule, to minimize oxygen I try to do a final racking before bottling/ final meta/ sweetening/ or sorbate
3) cool temp holds CO2 better, ambient pressure degassing is better at room/ serving temp, so you will want to let it warm up. From a practical perspective I have never held a wine in a fridge longer than two months. Clarification is said to be better without CO2, I haven’t run this as a controlled experiment, ,,, yet. With my tools I am pulling a vacuum with a one hole cork and check valve, the CO2 is non oxidative (protective) so mechanical degassing is close to bottling. ,,,, the pH number will read low with CO2.
4) cold crashing is a way to remove tartaric acid which is dominant in grapes, not strawberries! This is best done at -2C, again with high acid grapes.
5) time is wonderful for clearing wine, you will hear the word patience. Kits use clarifies so they can be finished in ninety days.

 

[Ijsbiertje]

Thank you for all the information.

It's almost been a week since the bubbling stopped. I now have a pretty clear upper part, a cloudy middle part and some sediment on the bottom.
What should I do next? Do i wait some more until the cloudy middle part has settled down. Or should I rack off to carboy, leaving the sediment. Should I degass then? I read about degassing with a vacuumpump. What pump do you recommand? Then measure SG,TA, PH, SO2 and maybe make some adjustment with sulphite.
I guess doing it all at once is the best so I have the least contact with air.

Thank you