Beginner Plum Wine

[Hazelemere]

My gawd! thats a huge batch. How much was the end result (aka can I scale this down to a single 5-6 gallon initial fermentation).

@winemaker81 thanks for this! I'm getting the impression the few video's I linked originally are at least reasonable, but I should never expect to just follow a recipe to the T.

While I've got all the hardware I need minus a few quality of life things like a bottle tree (months away from needing this) I will be heading to my local supplier this weekend for all of the additives like k-meta and of course yeast etc etc.

Love what you are saying about the yeast doing the work. I jumped on the typical covid hobby of sourdough baking, which gives me at least some understanding of what you're talking about. Also did some great tours while in Belgium discussing old beer brewing methods (the "magic" spoon hung on the wall to stir the wart while meanwhile it was collecting ambient yeast before they even knew what yeast was).

In the meantime, I will continue processing my tons of plums, collecting all the starter packets I could possibly need, and will likely give a basic batch a start this weekend based off all the information gathered here. Will report back with starting SG etc once done and go from there.

Nice thing about freezing my harvest is I can also run a number of small batches back to back rather than simultaneously and learn a lot of lessons (hopefully not hard ones) fairly quickly

shrink the recipe 4 fold and you should get 6+ gallons. slice the bananas and cut the dried figs in half. The sherry was stunning. I oaked it and let it bake in my attic from spring to fall to give it a caramel smell and flavour. I topped it up with demerara rum to get the alcohol up to 20%. I rated it 10/10.

I got 2nd prize on a prune plum rose that used 7 lbs pitted plums, 3 lb of cane sugar and 1 Imperial gallon of water with pectic enzyme and nutrient. It was really tasty.

 

[winechef]

For processing. the fruit. I have frozen plums and peaches whole. after thawing removing pits is easier. I've also run them through a grape crusher and pits drop to the bottom if you have one

 

[Rice_Guy]

welcome to WMT

* start, the sooner you begin the learning curve the sooner you find the next question. Wine is a several months process.
* oxygen is the enemy of alcohol. If you are a purist you could load it up with tannin (antioxidant) otherwise use metabisulphite. I would use both. I like chestnut since the flavor magnifies acid notes. I like BlancSoft for low flavor.
* you don’t have to have 100% clarity for it to taste good. With plums / peaches clarity comes from pectic enzyme. Expect better clarity after year one of learning curve.
* pH is involved much of the chemistry and bacterial stability. 3 to 4 narrow range pH paper is a cheap way to start.
* over 100 pounds is a lot, what else can you make? Making wine is cooking. Know what acid tastes like and what balance against sweetness you like.
* I ripen my peach in flat Aldi’s boxes. More raw is easier to press. More ripe is more fruity less acidic.
* Bryan has given some excellent advice.

 

[winemaker81]

The aforementioned uncle is a hardcore purist. Avoids all sufites and sorbates. Let fermentation end naturally and maintain all that healthy probiotics for your gut etc etc.

Some of my early mentors made wines "naturally". Grapes arrived by train from CA, were crushed and dumped into a barrel. Fermented and pressed. Three months later they were drinking the wine.

Most of the time the wine was "ok", some times it was pretty good, and some times ya really had to want to get drunk to drink it. <shudder>

Two of the guys I knew at that time approached wine scientifically. They added K-meta, checked pH with test strips, etc. Along with that, they tasted their wines along the way, and used their senses to make a lot of choices. Their wines were ALWAYS good, or even great.

As I think about it, this experience led me to my method of acting scientifically but trusting my senses, as I follow the lead of the guys who consistently made the best wine. This takes time and practice. Remember:

Good Judgment comes from Experience.
Experience comes from Bad Judgment.

You'll make mistakes. Most are recoverable.

Pay attention to all the advice you receive. Ask yourself "why?" someone does something -- the answer to that will help you decide how you want to proceed. Research all the additives, considering why to use them and when, and when not to. Have fun.

 

[GreatNorthernLlama]

@winemaker81, regarding secondary storage, I've got maybe 30 bottles from a kit we used to make our wedding wine years ago (unfortunately didn't get me much experience as it was an in-house place. We just mixed up the must and bottle and they take care of everything else for you on-site). In addition to this I've got a good 15-20 of the exact Carlo Rosi bottles you mentioned. The big 3L ones. I've been trolling kijiji for some more bottles in the meantime. A few free boxes have come up recently that I've just been too slow on. Also appreciate the pep talk. I know I'm more a methodical scientific type guy, so will approach winemaking knowing my strengths. If I ever go by "feel", I usually overthink it and overact lol.

@Hazelemere, the wife is especially a rum fiend so this sounds RIGHT up our ally. I'm saving this and will probably ping you in a few months time (probably wont start with a recipe like this but I'm eager to try it!). Your rose recipe in the meantime looks more like what I'll give a try this time. Cane sugar makes a big difference over regular?

@winechef, I will have to invest in a proper chest freezer! I've got a little stand up which is usually already 90% full of Costco meats etc. I already had to do a big brisket last weekend just to make room, and that's after processing and pitting and losing at least half my harvest from not getting to it fast enough! That sounds like a much more approachable method. If all works out and I solidify the hobby into doing it long-term (hopefully) a grape press would be fantastic. To get started I'm keeping the budget as low as I possibly can (just in case )

@Rice_Guy, trying to make a simple plum syrup (unsure how good Italian plums are for this but we shall see) and some jams etc with surplus. A fungus I thought I avoided through harvest decimated half my harvest (tho ~ 60 lbs still is nothing to shake a stick at).

 

[winemaker81]

regarding secondary storage, I've got maybe 30 bottles from a kit we used to make our wedding wine years ago (unfortunately didn't get me much experience as it was an in-house place. We just mixed up the must and bottle and they take care of everything else for you on-site). In addition to this I've got a good 15-20 of the exact Carlo Rosi bottles you mentioned. The big 3L ones. I've been trolling kijiji for some more bottles in the meantime. A few free boxes have come up recently that I've just been too slow on. Also appreciate the pep talk. I know I'm more a methodical scientific type guy, so will approach winemaking knowing my strengths. If I ever go by "feel", I usually overthink it and overact lol.

Every 1 US gallon / 4 liters is five 750 ml bottles (if the jug is full, 4 liters also produces one 375 ml bottle). 5 US gallons / 19 liters is 25 bottles, e.g., 2 cases + 1 bottle.

It's more efficient to make larger batches, as you lose volume every time you rack, and it will be about the same amount per secondary container, so if you have five 4 liter jugs you'll lose about 5 times the volume as you would from a single 19 liter carboy.

For this reason you want to rack as few times as feasible.

Regarding winemaking by feel, every time you touch your wine, taste it and record your impressions. Those notes are the best way to teach yourself.

 

[Hazelemere]

@winemaker81, regarding secondary storage, I've got maybe 30 bottles from a kit we used to make our wedding wine years ago (unfortunately didn't get me much experience as it was an in-house place. We just mixed up the must and bottle and they take care of everything else for you on-site). In addition to this I've got a good 15-20 of the exact Carlo Rosi bottles you mentioned. The big 3L ones. I've been trolling kijiji for some more bottles in the meantime. A few free boxes have come up recently that I've just been too slow on. Also appreciate the pep talk. I know I'm more a methodical scientific type guy, so will approach winemaking knowing my strengths. If I ever go by "feel", I usually overthink it and overact lol.

@Hazelemere, the wife is especially a rum fiend so this sounds RIGHT up our ally. I'm saving this and will probably ping you in a few months time (probably wont start with a recipe like this but I'm eager to try it!). Your rose recipe in the meantime looks more like what I'll give a try this time. Cane sugar makes a big difference over regular?

@winechef, I will have to invest in a proper chest freezer! I've got a little stand up which is usually already 90% full of Costco meats etc. I already had to do a big brisket last weekend just to make room, and that's after processing and pitting and losing at least half my harvest from not getting to it fast enough! That sounds like a much more approachable method. If all works out and I solidify the hobby into doing it long-term (hopefully) a grape press would be fantastic. To get started I'm keeping the budget as low as I possibly can (just in case )

@Rice_Guy, trying to make a simple plum syrup (unsure how good Italian plums are for this but we shall see) and some jams etc with surplus. A fungus I thought I avoided through harvest decimated half my harvest (tho ~ 60 lbs still is nothing to shake a stick at).

regular sugar is cane sugar

 

[Hazelemere]

@winemaker81, regarding secondary storage, I've got maybe 30 bottles from a kit we used to make our wedding wine years ago (unfortunately didn't get me much experience as it was an in-house place. We just mixed up the must and bottle and they take care of everything else for you on-site). In addition to this I've got a good 15-20 of the exact Carlo Rosi bottles you mentioned. The big 3L ones. I've been trolling kijiji for some more bottles in the meantime. A few free boxes have come up recently that I've just been too slow on. Also appreciate the pep talk. I know I'm more a methodical scientific type guy, so will approach winemaking knowing my strengths. If I ever go by "feel", I usually overthink it and overact lol.

@Hazelemere, the wife is especially a rum fiend so this sounds RIGHT up our ally. I'm saving this and will probably ping you in a few months time (probably wont start with a recipe like this but I'm eager to try it!). Your rose recipe in the meantime looks more like what I'll give a try this time. Cane sugar makes a big difference over regular?

@winechef, I will have to invest in a proper chest freezer! I've got a little stand up which is usually already 90% full of Costco meats etc. I already had to do a big brisket last weekend just to make room, and that's after processing and pitting and losing at least half my harvest from not getting to it fast enough! That sounds like a much more approachable method. If all works out and I solidify the hobby into doing it long-term (hopefully) a grape press would be fantastic. To get started I'm keeping the budget as low as I possibly can (just in case )

@Rice_Guy, trying to make a simple plum syrup (unsure how good Italian plums are for this but we shall see) and some jams etc with surplus. A fungus I thought I avoided through harvest decimated half my harvest (tho ~ 60 lbs still is nothing to shake a stick at).

try plum apple crumbles. They'll freeze. https://jamjarkitchen.com/2021/07/21/plum-and-apple-crumble/

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Wow. Welcome. Hydrometer. Great ! Read the forum on beginners and country fruitwinemaking. Also a great search function for the threads. Sanitizing. Sanitizing. And as Brian said patience

 

[wood1954]

I’ve never pitted plums and have never had a problem. I think some things just keep being repeated without any basis in fact. I also don’t pit cherries with no bad effects.

 

[Hazelemere]

I’ve never pitted plums and have never had a problem. I think some things just keep being repeated without any basis in fact. I also don’t pit cherries with no bad effects.

you are lucky. pits contain cyanide compounds.

I did my masters thesis on destroying cyanide. So my friend, there is basis in fact. It is possible that pit fermentation is OK which you suggest but I won't go there.

from Google;

Some fresh fruits, including cherries, plums, peaches, nectarines and apricots have pits that contains cyanide compounds, which are poisonous. If a couple pits are accidentally swallowed, it will not cause poisoning. The pits are more poisonous if they are ground up/crushed or the seeds are chewed.

 

[wood1954]

Exactly my point, why would you crush the pits? Is there a difference between organic cyanide from pits and inorganic cyanide?

 

[Hazelemere]

Exactly my point, why would you crush the pits? Is there a difference between organic cyanide from pits and inorganic cyanide?

yes but that would take hours to understand. You go for it. I won't.

file:///C:/Users/Klaus/Desktop/2192-ArticleText-6378-1-10-20220725-1.pdf

 

[Hazelemere]

here you go on cyanide in fruit pits

 

[GreatNorthernLlama]

Spicy lmao. At the end of the day as a beginner I wanted to remove any possible way to mess up my batch. I figured pits adds volume and mass not factored in other recipes and maybe even leaves a bit of extra bitter flavor for all I knew. Better safe than sorry I figured

 

[wood1954]

From that study: The pits were then ground to a relatively fine, homogeneous powder using a Tefal the Real Grinder.
I don’t know anyone that grinds the pits to a fine powder. I was taught how to make plum wine by an octogenarian who didn’t pit his plums, but if you’re concerned definitely pit your fruit.

 

[Hazelemere]

From that study: The pits were then ground to a relatively fine, homogeneous powder using a Tefal the Real Grinder.
I don’t know anyone that grinds the pits to a fine powder. I was taught how to make plum wine by an octogenarian who didn’t pit his plums, but if you’re concerned definitely pit your fruit.

Agreed. I am concerned.

 

[winemaker81]

you are lucky. pits contain cyanide compounds.

Exactly my point, why would you crush the pits? Is there a difference between organic cyanide from pits and inorganic cyanide?

Crushing of the pits does not appear to be a problem. However, does fermentation extract cyanide from the pits?

I'm not making wine from pit fruits so I don't have a vested interest in this discussion, but for those that are, it's a good question. I tried a few searches but did not find anything I'd trust as definitive or authoritative.

I did find this reference to a cyanide detector:

https://www.chemsee.com/residential/cyanide/cyanide-detector/

 

[wood1954]

I don’t think a cyanide detector would work as the pits have amygdalin which metabolizes to cyanide. I think the yeast act as a poison detector, if the yeast die you might have cyanide as cyanide will kill yeast.

 

[Raptor99]

Crushing of the pits does not appear to be a problem. However, does fermentation extract cyanide from the pits?

That is the key question.