Beginner's diary - Shiraz making

[Obelix]

The initial stress behind me... have a few days to consider next steps.

At the moment, I'm unclear at what level of BRIX to press. Reading up on it - confusing and sometimes, conflicting info.

And as per John's advice above - considering how to introduce MLF.
In practical terms, in Western Australia - I can order Enoferm Alpha, Lalvin VP41, Omega packaged for my amount of wine.
Either seem reasonable, with the same price.

Unfortuantelly, the descriptors don't mean much to me at this stage:

• Mouthfeel
• fruit esters
  
• low diacetyl
  
• low degradation of acetaldehyde

So may toss a coin. But learning heaps every day.

 

[Johnd]

The initial stress behind me... have a few days to consider next steps.

At the moment, I'm unclear at what level of BRIX to press. Reading up on it - confusing and sometimes, conflicting info.

And as per John's advice above - considering how to introduce MLF.
In practical terms, in Western Australia - I can order Enoferm Alpha, Lalvin VP41, Omega packaged for my amount of wine.
Either seem reasonable, with the same price.

Unfortuantelly, the descriptors don't mean much to me at this stage:

• Mouthfeel
• fruit esters
  
• low diacetyl
  
• low degradation of acetaldehyde

So may toss a coin. But learning heaps every day.

I’m a VP41 fan, and typically run MLF concurrent with AF, coinoculation. 41 is pretty much a workhorse, I recall seeing folks have good results with Alpha as well. I don’t use sulfite at crush if I intend to MLF the wine, as you don’t want sulfite to inhibit the progress, and try to get a pH over 3.4. Most mlb are good with a little sulfite, pH above 3.2, temps in 70’s+, and ABV under 15%, but after a few struggles, it’s nothing but business now. Coinoculation puts mlb to work in a 0% ABV situation, with warm temps from fermentation, a properly adjusted pH, good nutrient protocol, and no sulfite, it’s usually done a few short weeks after pressing.

 

[Obelix]

Thanks John, happy to use what works. I'll order 41.
I read some arguments over pro-con coinoculation - and only got me more confused.
I can see a loginc in your reasoning. Will try that next year.

In this case, at least 4-5 vines had soem bunches with a white mould on them. These bunches were discarded or - the mouldy bits cut off - and yet, I felt it was prudent to protect the grape. Having said that, at 2.5 flat teaspoons on 300kg of grapes, I may have not added enough.

Hopefully, this small amount will not interfere with the secondary fermentation.
I was planning to add it in once I see the primary fermentation has copleted in the VCT.

 

[Obelix]

V41 on order...
Turning the cap twice a day.
Yesterday (21/02) - BRIX was down to 21 - will measure this afternoon again - the fermentation seems quite obvious and active - the smell is very nice now.

Edit: 1:30 - cap turned
Hydrometer shows 16. Quite a drop from yesterday. Tried a few drops - still very sweet.
8pm - turned again. The cap is lifting higher. Will be 3 times a day from now on.

 

[Obelix]

23/02 - cap turned three times. The hydrometer shows 10 - and the fermentation still going strong.
Tried the juice - a great taste - with a slight bit of astringency - may be due to the stems in the mix - but I would sign on the taste right now.
Stoked by the progress

Any advice on when to press? When the hydrometer reads 3-5? Before - after?
A friend suggested to press now, but I think it's too early.

I have a slight concern - some liquid losses due to natural evaporation - should these be re-covered with water, or just accepted as a part of the process?

 

[Johnd]

23/02 - cap turned three times. The hydrometer shows 10 - and the fermentation still going strong.
Tried the juice - a great taste - with a slight bit of astringency - may be due to the stems in the mix - but I would sign on the taste right now.
Stoked by the progress

Any advice on when to press? When the hydrometer reads 3-5? Before - after?
A friend suggested to press now, but I think it's too early.

I have a slight concern - some liquid losses due to natural evaporation - should these be re-covered with water, or just accepted as a part of the process?

When to press is dependent upon many factors, consider extraction goals; timing with your life, weather fluctuations, etc. and press when it’s right. If you’re tasting big tannins and fruit, and have great color at 5 Brix, then press. Wait longer if you desire to increase extraction. I recall that you’re fermenting warm, and outside, and expect you’ve had some nice temp spikes up into the upper 80’s, that’s good for extraction. You’re at 10 now, it’ll hit 5 and below before you know it.

Never had any appreciable amount of evaporation during AF, but I’d accept it as a blessing, and not add water.

Post pictures, or it didn’t happen!!

 

[Arne]

Bet instead of evaporation the must expands as it ferments. Gets full of co2 and this is why you have to use a larger fermenter when you are doing primary ferment. As it slows down, some of the co2 goes out and the must looks like you have less in there. I would say nuthin to worry about. Arne.

 

[Obelix]

Thanks guys.
The evaporation is not significant - was just wondering what other people do. Will leave it alone.
The cap seems to act as a lid - until I mix it.

I was so lucky with the temperature. Even - day by day - around 30C.
So it seems I may press as soon as Sunday - after 6 days.
Need to prepare and test the press function tomorrow. Don't wish to find it faulty when I need it

Yes the photos - how did I forget to take photos. :-(
My wife took a photo just after we crushed it. I'll try to remember to take another one tomorrow.

 

[Obelix]

This morning I turned the cap, and again at 1pm, when I took the measurement of 5 Brix.

Tried the wine and it seemed perfect with a ting of sweetness. Figured the sweetness will ferment out and it can only get worse from here so - on a short notice my wife and I pressed the wine ahead of the plan.

A laborious process - drain the liquids into a 15L bucket - through a kitchen strainer - and carry it into the VCT in the house.
Clumsy but no other options at the moment.

Around 170-180 L transferred. The rest was pressed - another 30 litres appx.

Thought of separating these 30L as an "inferior" batch, but after tasting it and finding it great, decided to add it into the VCT which now contains at least 200L of wine.

Then another 6L squeezed from the press transferred to 2L flagons - we are likely to drink it through the week with friends. It tastes fantastic.

I can feel the smell of fermentation in the spare room where the VCT is.
Will likely start the MLF in a few days, but honestly it's great as is.

May still drain 50L and stop it with sulphites - without applying the MLF Bacteria. How else to learn the difference?

Took us around 2.5 - 3 hours - including washing out the equipment.

Took a few clumsy photos - will try to upload tomorrow.

So much fun

 

[REDRUM]

Awesome!
If it hasn't fermented out dry yet, you might have some issues with fizz when you open your flagons though ....

 

[Obelix]

- true Redrum - the flagon tops are only placed on top. You can see the fermentation still going on.
Just had a glass - what a nice drink. Relly hopign the process continues as successful as it has been so far.

Added a photo in the post above. May add more when I get hold of my wife's phone.

 

[Obelix]

A final picture after pressing attached
The VCT is still fermenting - 4 days after pressing.

Washing one beerkeg to pour in 50L of wine which will not be MLF-ed.
This batch will be separated once the fermentation stops - as a part of the gross lees removal.
Need to calculate a correct amount of sulphites - waiting for the ph meter to arrive for that.
Also waiting for the bungs and airlocks for the kegs.

So far, the most important lesson learned was to order everything earlier.

A few concerns :

• The keg appears clean and wonder if I need to sterilise it given I'll add sulphites upon the storage.
  
• The VCT airlock is the one with a marble - a syphon with water bubbles - this is quiet. Hard to say when finished - except for the smell.
  If I pour out 2L of wine into a container to measure BRIX - can I return it through the top? This required opening the lid and exposing the wine to oxygen.
  Maybe I should get some kind of a narrow measure?
  
• A pending removal of gross lees will mean transferring the liquid into a temporary storage until I clean up the VCT tank.
  Then I'll have to transfer the wine back for the next step (MLF)
  Being a bit short of having a commercial winery, I'll be using a bucket. This will be exposing the wine to air - is this a problem? I cannot add sulphites before the MLF.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Johnd]

A final picture after pressing attached
The VCT is still fermenting - 4 days after pressing.

Washing one beerkeg to pour in 50L of wine which will not be MLF-ed.
This batch will be separated once the fermentation stops - as a part of the gross lees removal.
Need to calculate a correct amount of sulphites - waiting for the ph meter to arrive for that.
Also waiting for the bungs and airlocks for the kegs.

So far, the most important lesson learned was to order everything earlier.

A few concerns :

• The keg appears clean and wonder if I need to sterilise it given I'll add sulphites upon the storage.
  
• The VCT airlock is the one with a marble - a syphon with water bubbles - this is quiet. Hard to say when finished - except for the smell.
  If I pour out 2L of wine into a container to measure BRIX - can I return it through the top? This required opening the lid and exposing the wine to oxygen.
  Maybe I should get some kind of a narrow measure?
  
• A pending removal of gross lees will mean transferring the liquid into a temporary storage until I clean up the VCT tank.
  Then I'll have to transfer the wine back for the next step (MLF)
  Being a bit short of having a commercial winery, I'll be using a bucket. This will be exposing the wine to air - is this a problem? I cannot add sulphites before the MLF.

Any advice would be appreciated.

You should sanitize everything that comes into contact with your wine, period. Pour a little sulfit solution into your vessel, switch it around to coat all surfaces, remove the excess, and you’ll be ready to go.

You can remove and return wine, again, sanitize everything. I have a hydrometer with a thin piece of fishing line tied th the top, it can be sanitized, lowered into a narrow mouthed clear vessel for a reading, and pulled back out. The less you expose your unprotected wine to air, the better, so be efficient.

Again, for gross lees racking, sanitize and be efficient. There will probably be lots of CO2 released during this racking process, it’ll help to protect your wine to some degree. After the gross lees racking, fermentation should be done and you should also be working to limit headspace in your vessels, the VCT is easy, but be attentive to the others.

 

[Obelix]

Thanks a lot John.

What worries me is that in a 50L keg with wine I need to put roughly 1 flat teaspoon of potassiom metabisulphite - if I use a few teaspoons in the sanitising solution and don't rinse the container with water I'll leave too.much of sulfite in.
Is this really a problem or would it evaporate/ bind with the air?

 

[Johnd]

Thanks a lot John.

What worries me is that in a 50L keg with wine I need to put roughly 1 flat teaspoon of potassiom metabisulphite - if I use a few teaspoons in the sanitising solution and don't rinse the container with water I'll leave too.much of sulfite in.
Is this really a problem or would it evaporate/ bind with the air?

Even if a little solution remains behind, the impact is negligible, don't fret it, just dump it out.

 

[Obelix]

<After the gross lees racking, fermentation should be done and you should also be working to limit headspace in your vessels>
Will be careful, thanks.
Planning to inoculate the MLF (V41) into the VCT and then leave alone for 4-6 weeks to ferment further - then I'll add the sulfite
50L will be in a keg - filled to the top - without the MLF - sulphites added so should hopefully be OK.

 

[Obelix]

A friend showed up with 150kg of greanche yesterday - if we could crush and press it straight away.
After alll the washing and cleaning up, all over again
Funny thing , pressing Grenache juice straight away...but I won't be drinking it, so...

 

[Obelix]

27/02 - Tasted the wine from the VCT. Seems to be getting Shiraz wine character. The sugar is almost gone.
Also the yeast and sulphur smell is much less intense - I would say, the fermenting is nearly over.
Two flagons are at a different stage of fermenting - so they taste different from each other, and both taste sweeter, and less mature than the VCT one.
The flagons are filled from the last press so it was expected. Not sure why two of them taste different.

Waiting for a silicone bung and syphone for the beer keg, then I'll rake it. Should arrive tomorrow.
Again : the same lesson learned - purchase everything early...

 

[Obelix]

Confused with a dose of fear...
The wine is still slowly fermenting.
Haven't really measured the Brix since, but tried it and still has some sweetness in it.

So reading the Red Wine Making Guide and in there it says to rake it from the gross lees after 1-2 days.

I was under impression the fermentation needs to fully stop first. So I'm over by 3-4 days.

How long should the primary go for, after pressing?

So likely to rake it tomorrow - finished or not. Hope not to mess it up...

 

[Johnd]

Confused with a dose of fear...
The wine is still slowly fermenting.
Haven't really measured the Brix since, but tried it and still has some sweetness in it.

So reading the Red Wine Making Guide and in there it says to rake it from the gross lees after 1-2 days.

I was under impression the fermentation needs to fully stop first. So I'm over by 3-4 days.

How long should the primary go for, after pressing?

So likely to rake it tomorrow - finished or not. Hope not to mess it up...

You should be pressing somewhere close to 1.000, or just above. I typically wait no more than 3 days after pressing to rack off of the gross lees. In three days, with fermentation slowing (but not necessarily over) most of the heavy stuff will have accumulated on the bottom of your vessel, that's the crap you want to leave behind. After that, don't rack til MLF is over, unless you did a bad job with your first racking and have a lot of gross lees still left.