Bentonite in Primary

[NorthernWinos]

Have been gathering some recipes for various fruit wines, some with store-bought concentrates.I see that some of them are adding Bentonite in the primary fermenter...some recipes state it is a method used in kit wines. I have never made a kit wine nor added Bentonite to the pirmary......
What is the results of doing this???
I read that you add some warm water and stir, could you put the Bentonite in a blender with water and then add it to the primary fermenter????
Do you use hot water or just warm????
Would you still use peptic Enzyme in the primary?? Or is that a matter of choice??


Also, was wondering about using hot water with some of the other chemicals that we use in winemaking. Read once not to use hot water with some of the additives and was wondering what some of you thought about that????

Thanks!

 

[masta]

Quote from Tim Vandergrift of Winexpert:


"The bentonite is in the primary fermentation for two reasons:

<UL>
<LI>It helps increase the rate of yeast growth, acting as an accelerant for budding activity
<LI>It helps settle out yeast cells post-fermentation, and prevents hazes from early autolysing cells.</LI>[/list]



It really doesn't have much to do with heat hazes, as we don't heat-extract our juices (when you do heat extractions the colour compounds aren't stable--they just drop out of suspension after a while) and is mainly concerned with compacting the sediment bed, not with ultimately clarifying a post-fermentation wine.

The difference in bentonite preparation has to do with the difference in all of the bentonites available on the market. Some rehydrate easily, others are nearly hygroscopic, and need to be soaked for hours before they will perform their function."


I have found the Bentonite found in the WE kits dissolves well when sprinkled slowly into warm water while stirring with a wire whisk.

 

[Steve]

As for the Pectic Enzyme it is used for breaking down the fruits in the must so you can get all the goodies out of them.It alsoacts as a clarifier, so if you are using fruits and not just juice, you would still add it.


I use warm water, not hot water when I am dissolving chemicals. Sometimes I do it in a blender to endure they are dissolved completely. The only thing I use hot water for is dissolving sugar.


Hope this helps...


Pro's, if I am wrong on any of this or you can expound more please do.Edited by: Steve

 

[NorthernWinos]

WOW!!!Faster than the speed of light....Thanks for such speedy and enlightening responses.
I think I will add the Peptic Enzyme as well. Will use warm water and might use the blender on the Bentonite, just to be sure it gets mixed well.
Thanks again.
Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[PolishWineP]

We don't use warm water from the tap, we use tap water that has been brought to a boil and allowed to cool a bit. We don't want to add any chemicals the city may have added to our water. I think the blender does a wonderful job with the bentonite. I put the water in the container, put the lid on without the center part, turn in on low and slowly add the bentonite to the water as it stirs. Chunky bentonite really doesn't do much for your wines. Good luck!

 

[NorthernWinos]

Thanks PWPrincess....will do the blender that way. I used the blender once with Bentonite and didn't have enough water in it, the Bentonite was like thick mud.
We have well water, so have other 'natural' stuff in it. Hardly any iron, but have calcium and lime...wonder if all the water added to the wine should be boiled and cooled.
Went to the local Health Food/Brew & Wine store today, picked up some SUPER-KLEER K.C....have never used this product before....in fine print it says that it may not clear peptic haze or products made hard water [high in dissolved minerals]. I wanted to use it on a Crabapple/White Grape [WineExpert]Concentrate Wine, it seems to be one that will stay cloudy for a long time....Have you had any experience with this product????
I went there today looking for a gravity filter, will have to be ordering one I guess....From the posts on this Forum filtering sure looks like a necessary step.
Looking back I sure have gained a lot of information from reading these posts....seems reading books are good, but peoples inputs are the best!!!!
Thanks !!!!

 

[PolishWineP]

I just reread this and thought of a few things. You'd mentioned how thick your bentonite mix had been. I ran into that yesterday and after I'd really done a number mixing it in the blender I then took a little of the wine and ran the blender on low to thing it a bit. You can also add more water.


Have you tried a Brita on the water you use for wines? It could help remove some of the things that come from "natural water" that is found off the water systems.


I think it was Super Kleer we used on the Pineapple. We've gotten some good results from it. We made the mistake of doing our cold treatment while the Super Kleer was in the wine and I guess that wasn't the smartest thing to do. Learn and move on!Edited by: PolishWineP

 

[Curt]

NW,


You asked about using hot water with wine chemicals and additaves. The only ones that I knowabout for sure aboutare the metabisulfites. You should always mix them in cool to cold water otherwise the sulfites release too quickly and, damn, does that ever burn your nose. It actually brought tears to my eyes and snot out the nose. I'm a good boy now and do it by the rules.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Ouch - thanks for the graphic description to help learn the lesson

 

[NorthernWinos]

I just reread this and thought of a few things.  You'd mentioned how thick your bentonite mix had been.  I ran into that yesterday and after I'd really done a number mixing it in the blender I then took a little of the wine and ran the blender on low to thing it a bit.  You can also add more water.


Have you tried a Brita on the water you use for wines?  It could help remove some of the things that come from "natural water" that is found off the water systems. 



I think it was Super Kleer we used on the Pineapple.  We've gotten some good results from it.  We made the mistake of doing our cold treatment while the Super Kleer was in the wine and I guess that wasn't the smartest thing to do.  Learn and move on!

This last time I mixed the Bentonite I used your method of using more water and adding the Bentonite through the hole in the lid of the blender, it worked great, but there was 4 cups of water to begin with. The time I had a 'mud-pie' I was using just a bit of water and had wanted to add it to finished wine...added some wine in there to thin it out, so ...live and learn.

Have thought of getting a water purifier, but our water really tastes good and is clear....those Brita's have good press...might try one.

You mentioned that cold stabilizing wine containing SUPER-KLEER K.C. was not a good thing...what happened???

Thanks for all the little bits of advice that help so much......

 

[NorthernWinos]

Okay...I did like you all seem to do....I put Bentonite in the primary of my last 2 batches of wine...one was an Pineapple/Banana/Apple the next batch is a Welch's Niagara/WineExpert White Grape batch.....
Results...
The wines clear to a brilliant clear very quickly...

The wines set more lees than expected and I feel that I 'lost' alot of volume....

The wines keep giving off bubbles, even tho the S.G. is very low...[-995] is this what you are calling gas???

I have never seen bubbles raising up the sides of the carboy after the fermentation has stopped...Is this an effect of putting ...Bentonite in the Primary

Also...the Welch's Niagara 'Do-Up' had no flavor at the time I added the yeast, was worried about that.....now it has a wonderful light 'foxy' [grapey] flavor...we think it is going to be a great white wine...we usually only like red/fruity wines..Guys and Gals...this one is much better than ever expected...even at his point of the process...Definatly one to encourage others to try...