Blueberry and Strawberry question

[Old Philosopher]

I'm mystified.
I currently have two 1 gallon batches of blueberry and strawberry in the primary. These are my 3rd or 4th batches of each. In the past, I've been able to get the starting SG up around 1.080 by adding 6 cu of sugar to 1.25 gal of juice/berries. These two batches took 8 cups of sugar each.

With other similar batches, the SG was down to ~1.015, and racked into the secondaries in about 12-14 days. That was even during the winter when the batches were lucky if they were 70F. These current batches have been plodding along for 21 days and are only down to 1.035 (from 1.085).

I'm using the same yeast as always, Pasteur Red, and the only variable between these and other batches has been the extra 2 cu of sugar. As before, I'm using frozen berries.

Any insights, or observations on what might be causing such slow fermentation this time around?



Thanks for any and all replies.

 

[PCharles]

Detail Process

Please provide additional detail about your recipie. In particluar, did you add acid blend with TA adjustment and did you add yeast nutrient and energizer.

Best regards,
Paul

 

[Old Philosopher]

Please provide additional detail about your recipie. In particluar, did you add acid blend with TA adjustment and did you add yeast nutrient and energizer.

Best regards,
Paul

I have no way to test the acidity. I didn't add anything other than the yeast (which was started in the host solution, then added to the batch). I've never found it necessary to use any nutrient or energizer before, as fermentation has always been rapid.

I did another yeast starter for the strawberry four days ago, using only 1 tsp of extra yeast. The "booster" shot of yeast has had no measurable effect. I was going on the possibility that both packets of Pasteur Red were old. That was a desperation move, because both started well in the yeast starter I'd used in the beginning. I always do a yeast starter with the host batch juice, just so I'm sure the yeast is going to acclimatize and grow.

With the blueberry, the SG is slowly dropping, but I can't see any yeast cultures in the must at all.

 

[PCharles]

Follow a good recipie

I strongly encourage you to start with a good recipie next time. That should include adding an acid blend or similar product to start off with. Yeast prefer an acid environment and grow well when acid is added. It also and prevents the growth of bad bugs. There are kits out there that will allow you to test for TA - total acid that sell for about 10 bucks. There are also pH meters you can puchase.

Another ingredient would be yeast energizer and yeast nutriet. A good recipie will direct you to add some of these items as well.

I was hoping some of the members with more experience than I would field your question.

Paul

 

[Old Philosopher]

I appreciate your advice. I was also hoping some of the ol' pros around here would chime in.
I started out 2 years ago using my own fresh fruit, and apples for cider. It's not rocket science, and I've had very good luck up until this apparent glitch.
I know they'll both go to completion, and be fine, but I was curious if my situation sounded familiar to anyone.
The extra sugar in these batches is the only variable that distinguishes them from more rapidly fermenting batches.

 

[Arne]

I had a pie cherry that finished that way. Thought it was done and think I stabilized it. Let it sit and one day it was slowly going again. Kinda thought it was degassing, but it eventually fermented dry again. By the time it was done, I lost track of the abv, but it was strong. Didn't much care for it, but left it in the carboy for a year or so. Wound up calling it cherry bomb, and it smoothed out really well. Just have to watch it when you crack a bottle. Best of luck with it. I know this didn't answer your question, but I really do not have the answer. Think mine was slow because of the sorbate, but some of the yeasts lived on. Arne.

 

[winemaker_3352]

How old is was the yeast packet?

 

[Old Philosopher]

How old is was the yeast packet?

Regretfully, I didn't look at the dates on the Pasteur Red, but the Cote des Blancs I got at the same time has an 'expire' date of Oct, 2012 on it.
These two batches each got a different yeast packet. They seemed to take off as usual in the yeast starter.

Thanks for the info, Arne. I guess it's just a matter of hurry up and wait with these.

I guess a more pertinent question here would be how long other people have had their blueberry in the primary? Average time in the primary for other folk's strawberry? Maybe this is normal, and my other batches were the unusual ones. These are dropping at only about SG .001 per day.

 

[MN-winer]

Are the temps in the fermentation room within the normal range? 65-75? Blueberry is hard to start anyway, but if its cooler it might just plod along. If you aren't at 70 or above I'd consider heating it up a few degrees.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Are the temps in the fermentation room within the normal range? 65-75? Blueberry is hard to start anyway, but if its cooler it might just plod along. If you aren't at 70 or above I'd consider heating it up a few degrees.

Yes, it's been at 70-75F the whole time. I wasn't aware that blueberry had it's own issues that way. Thanks.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Down to the blueberry....

Well, five days ago I added Premier Cuvee in an attempt to "un-stick" my stuck fermentation.
It worked on the strawberry. Slowly, but it worked and it's now ready to rack to the secondary.

The blueberry didn't budge. As a matter of fact, when I pulled some of the batch to make the yeast starter, it sat for 4-5 hours and barely started to foam. There's something going on in the batch that I don't have the equipment to test for. Acid? pH? I'm still at a loss on this one.
Any thoughts?

 

[MN-winer]

Well - Blueberry is hard to ferment from the get -go. It has a chemical - Benzoate that is prevents fermentation. My experience is that it doesn't dissapate over time. You need a good strong starter and temp should be on the high end of fermentation. I'd go for high 70's. The starter should be bubbling good with just warm sugar water, then introduce some of the blueberry mix to get them used to the blueberry juice and wait until its going good. Honestly, I felt like I was coaxing them to ferment when I did it. I also added some raisens and I think that may have helped as well. Make sure you have added some Acid blend to the must.
Good luck!

 

[Old Philosopher]

Well - Blueberry is hard to ferment from the get -go. It has a chemical - Benzoate that is prevents fermentation. My experience is that it doesn't dissapate over time. You need a good strong starter and temp should be on the high end of fermentation. I'd go for high 70's. The starter should be bubbling good with just warm sugar water, then introduce some of the blueberry mix to get them used to the blueberry juice and wait until its going good. Honestly, I felt like I was coaxing them to ferment when I did it. I also added some raisens and I think that may have helped as well. Make sure you have added some Acid blend to the must.
Good luck!

Very helpful! Thank you!

 

[Old Philosopher]

Update

Well, my strawberry is plugging along. It's finally hovering around SG 1.000 in the secondary. Will continue to be patient.

The blueberry......I think I may have a gallon of blueberry vinegar! This is the first batch of anything that has taken on the vinegar odor, and it tastes very tart. I have no way to test the acid right now, the order's in the mail. It's still stuck around 1.048, after 35 days, even after adding some raisins.

I'm going to make one last attempt to make a plain yeast starter, rack the blueberry to the secondary under air lock and see what happens. Worst that can happen is yeast-flavored blueberry vinegar, right?

 

[mmadmikes1]

Add the blueberry into an active yeast a little bit at a time. Use some of the yeast from your strawberry because you said it was going good. Today add 2 cups of blueberry to yeast slurry tomorrow add a quart. Also throw in some yeast nutriunt for good measure. I would add about 2 tea spoons of lemon juice every time you add to the mix just to lower the PH. Get temp up to 75 ,76,77 you get the point.As soon as you feel it is ok to add more blueberry go ahead.You should have it all in in a couple days. BTW I did this last year to 6 gallons of blueberry that had same problem

 

[Old Philosopher]

Thanks! I'll give it the ol' college try. Thanks for the hint about the lemon juice!