Bottling/aging question.

[RichardC]

winemaker81, yes I completely agree with a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' system however, my logic ( and inexperience) thinks that racking is unnecessary, based on the below statement, and assuming the storage vessel is sealed well, additional exposure to O2 and possible spoilage organisms during racking, and consequently sulphites addition should be unnecessary. That being said, a final racking and addition of Sulphites before bottling sounds like a good plan. ( After all this talking, my reality is that wines are stored in buckets and plastic barrels with terrible seals and quite a bit of headspace, meaning that I HAVE TO RACK and add Sulphites regularly. :/. )


"When we make our first SO2 addition (by calculating, testing the results and correcting back up to our desired level if necessary- more on this later) we are establishing our starting point for free SO2 in the wine. Once this baseline has been established, as long as the wine remains completely sealed and devoid of oxygenc contact, the level of free SO2 should remain fairly stable over time. However, as soon as we start to open the vessels up for tasting, testing, blending, fining or topping up (for barrels), we will begin to see a clear drop in the free SO2"

https://morewinemaking.com/articles/SO2_management

 

[dmw_chef]

This makes sense, although it's difficult to get sulfite to disperse if the wine is not racked, as there are no convection currents in the wine.

As an experiment, fill a small carboy with water. Let it sit for a week or so. Then put a few drops of food coloring in it, within a 48 to 72 hours, it should be fully dispersed. At least that was my experience when had a discussion about this with a chemist a few months ago and did this experiment because I was of that same opinion.

If you're concerned, a quick twirl with a mix-stir or your degassing tool (not enough to disturb the surface) should be more than sufficient.

I personally add 25ppm k-meta each rack and before bottling. I've had meads in a carboy for almost a year without any additions and have noticed no oxidation problems.

 

[user 32114]

Is it really necessary to constantly add Sulphites ( besides first dose,) if the carboy isn't going to be opened? Let's say I'm going to age for 9 months, and added Sulphites initially. There is minimal sediment, so racking is unnecessary. Would I really need to add Sulphites every three months?

i bulk under a s airlock for up to 2 years, i add nothing as long as i never open my carboy, just make sure to keep your airlock filled, s airlocks do not evaporate near as quick as a 3 piece airlock,
Dawg

 

[winemaker81]

@dmw_chef, you raise a good point.

I have a counter-example -- oak. Last spring I added oak cubes to a neutral barrel and racked after 3 months. I poured the last of the sludge into a 1.5 liter bottle and let it rest a week -- I was very pleased that what looked like useless sludge settled out to 1" at the bottom of the bottle, so I recovered nearly all of it.

However, when I poured the wine off the sludge, it was so heavily over-oaked as to be undrinkable. I later used this wine to top up the 54 liter barrel and the when diluted the over-oaked wine added the character I was looking for (I was underwhelmed by the wine and considered adding more oak, but this proved unnecessary).

In this situation the oak character did not disburse in the wine -- it stayed at the bottom of the barrel with the cubes.

My question (which will require research) is: Does sulfite act like food coloring or oak character?

Given that vendors and kit instructions typically say to stir, I'm leaning more towards the oak side.

OTOH, gently stirring while adding sulfite in a thin stream may produce enough currents to disburse the sulfite.

 

[winemaker81]

i bulk under a s airlock for up to 2 years, i add nothing as long as i never open my carboy, just make sure to keep your airlock filled, s airlocks do not evaporate near as quick as a 3 piece airlock

That makes sense for a carboy that's not opened. I'll keep this in mind for my long term aging in carboys.

OTOH, it won't work for a barrel that is periodically topped up.

 

[user 32114]

That makes sense for a carboy that's not opened. I'll keep this in mind for my long term aging in carboys.

OTOH, it won't work for a barrel that is periodically topped up.

lol, yep i never use oak in my country wines,
Dawg

 

[winemaker81]

lol, yep i never use oak in my country wines,

Ya got me thinking -- put elderberry in a neutral barrel for a year. I wonder how the concentrating effect would work?

I'd put dry wine in the barrel, as I have no idea what residual sugar would do.

 

[dmw_chef]

In this situation the oak character did not disburse in the wine -- it stayed at the bottom of the barrel with the cubes.

That could just be impact of the sediment not fully falling out in the new container. Some of that sediment is tannins that have polymerized enough to fall out of solution.

 

[user 32114]

Ya got me thinking -- put elderberry in a neutral barrel for a year. I wonder how the concentrating effect would work?

I'd put dry wine in the barrel, as I have no idea what residual sugar would do.

hum elderberry, i could see that, since elderberry needs either long, long bulk aging or made with black berry,
Dawg