WineXpert Bottling first kit ever, SO2 question

[bstnh1]

This is from "Adventures in Homebrewing":

"It is important to realize that a sulfite solution made with any of these three ingredients: Sodium Metabisulfite, Potassium Metabisulfite or Campden Tablets, are the only solutions that do not need actual surface contact time to do their sanitizing. All the other sanitizers we offer ‘do’ require some contact.
These contact sanitizers work well for the smaller items that can be easily soaked, and for larger items that can be easily wiped down, such as grape crushers and grape presses. But when it comes to sanitizing fermenters, wine bottles, glass jugs and other containers, it’s hard to beat using a sulfite solution."

 

[cmason1957]

Not to throw water on that but according to this article, it's rinse for 5 minutes, then let drip dry:

https://winemakermag.com/article/413-keep-it-clean
I squirt mine, wait some period of time, then use. I do mix mine to be a bit differently than the article indicated, I use 2 TBSP (6 tsp) and add 1 TBSP of Acid to lower the Ph. Does that matter, I have no clue

 

[sour_grapes]

Not to throw water on that

Don't throw water on it! It is a no-rinse sanitizer!

 

[winemaker81]

"It is important to realize that a sulfite solution made with any of these three ingredients: Sodium Metabisulfite, Potassium Metabisulfite or Campden Tablets, are the only solutions that do not need actual surface contact time to do their sanitizing.

Gaseous SO2 does the job. The hard part about this is that it's difficult to tell if gaseous SO2 has had sufficient contact.

Not to throw water on that but according to this article, it's rinse for 5 minutes, then let drip dry:

Other sources say to shake off the excess and use the equipment.

It's hard-n-heck to know what to do. My process is based upon reading lots of sources, and simply making a choice that makes sense to me.

I squirt mine, wait some period of time, then use. I do mix mine to be a bit differently than the article indicated, I use 2 TBSP (6 tsp) and add 1 TBSP of Acid to lower the Ph. Does that matter, I have no clue

I've done 2, 2-1/2, and 3 Tbsp K-meta in 1 US gallon. While I have no conclusive evidence which is best, I suspect that 2 Tbsp is plenty.

I did the math: 1/4 tsp is ~50 ppm in 5 US gallons, which is 250 ppm in 1 US gallon.
There are 3 tsp in 1 Tbsp, so 2 Tbsp produces 2,000 ppm, while 3 Tbsp produces 3,000 ppm.

If 50 ppm is good for handling wild yeast and other micro-critters in wine, I figure 2,000 ppm handles everything else. I know it does one heckuva job on me!

SO2 is more effective at lower pH, so adding the acid makes sense.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

The manufacturer of Star San says there is a 1-2 minute contact time required:

Star San

Hmm. "Apply to the surface"... Indicates surface washing, as in an open air scenario. Is there a difference if used in a non open air scenario as the inside of a bottle or carboy where the vapors can concentrate?

 

[sour_grapes]

Hmm. "Apply to the surface"... Indicates surface washing, as in an open air scenario. Is there a difference if used in a non open air scenario as the inside of a bottle or carboy where the vapors can concentrate?

My understanding is that Star San kills by virtue of having a pH too low (i.e., too acidic) for spoilage organisms to survive. I would offer the opinion that vapors don't change that.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Yes, but i thought I read it was actually the acidic vapor that created the inhospitipal environment. ie. burning the sulfer wick for oak barrels, or the nasty kmeta vapors.

 

[winojoe]

Here is my "2 cents":

I use KMS when working with anything but stainless steel. For stainless I use an acid sanitizer (StarSan) because KMS will degrade the stainless and eventually cause pitting.

My KMS mix is: 2 tsp KMS, 1 Tbs Citric Acid, 1 gallon clean water.
2 Tbs KMS is required if you do not lower the waters pH with some type of acid.
Try it out. sniff the water after adding the 2 tsp KMS. Then sniff the water after adding the Citric Acid. It will knock your socks off!

As far as residuals in the bottles:
Think about the concentration of KMS in the wine. The residual KMS sitting on the surface of the glass is diluted even further when the wine is added. This makes it really negligible. Even where 2Tbs KMS is used for one gallon water.

Carboy storage:
I pour about a quart of KMS sanitizing solution into the carboy, coat all the surfaces, and then place plastic wrap over the opening to seal it. The fumes will keep the carboy sanitized until ready for use again. Plastic is the best to use. KMS fumes will react with something like aluminum foil. This creates a nasty mess.

Stainless tanks:
I just use an acid sanitizer, usually StarSan. Just follow recommended dosage.


If you feel the need, let me know your thoughts.

Cheers!
Joe "the grape"

 

[winemaker81]

I pour about a quart of KMS sanitizing solution into the carboy, coat all the surfaces, and then place plastic wrap over the opening to seal it.

I tried putting a few of k-meta solution into a carboy. It mostly evaporated, and grew mold, a PITA to clean. Using a quart makes much more sense.

 

[bstnh1]

I store my cleaned carboys dry and empty with a small plastic bag and rubber band sealing the opening. I sanitize just before use.

 

[winojoe]

Never had a mold problem. But, will head the warning.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I have migrated to using One Step as my primary cleaner and sanitizer for most applications. I really like the ease of use and the no rinse factor it provides. I do however rinse my carboys and bottles with a Kmeta sanitizer rinse as a secondary precaution (3 tbs / gallon).

 

[sluff]

I’ve been using Star San for 12 years on my bottles without a problem.

After sanitizing with Star San - do you rinse before bottling? I have been using Star San for about 5 years - but always do a quick rinse with hot water before filling the bottles. I am concerned that Star San might impact the taste and the foam drives me crazy...

 

[cmason1957]

After sanitizing with Star San - do you rinse before bottling? I have been using Star San for about 5 years - but always do a quick rinse with hot water before filling the bottles. I am concerned that Star San might impact the taste and the foam drives me crazy...

Don't fear the foam. I always bottle wine using metabisulphite solution for sanitizing. But for beer we use the Star San. Quick spritz, turn onto bottle tree, let drip for four or five or ten minutes, flip over bottle. Never has caused any off tastes or problems. I would fear (and this is probably not really a thing) but rinsing after sanitizing introduces something or other that I don't want.

 

[winemaker81]

After sanitizing with Star San - do you rinse before bottling? I have been using Star San for about 5 years - but always do a quick rinse with hot water before filling the bottles. I am concerned that Star San might impact the taste and the foam drives me crazy...

If you rinse after using a no-rinse sanitizer, you've undone what you've just done. I've used Star San, but the foam bugs me, so I don't use it at bottling time.

 

[GaDawg]

If you rinse after using a no-rinse sanitizer, you've undone what you've just done. I've used Star San, but the foam bugs me, so I don't use it at bottling time.

I agree, but the Star San reassures me

 

[bstnh1]

I use K-meta when bottling. No foam, no rinse, no problem!

 

[sour_grapes]

I am concerned that Star San might impact the taste and the foam drives me crazy...

Have you ever actually tasted the foam? Pretty much a non-event.

 

[Rice_Guy]

A food industry point of view

After sanitizing with Star San - do you rinse before bottling? I have been using Star San for about 5 years - but always do a quick rinse with hot water before filling the bottles. I am concerned that Star San might impact the taste and the foam drives me crazy...

* wine is a preservative, ie it is toxic to most organisms, of those that will grow they require oxygen, ,,, how well do you control ullage? and oxidation reactions (ie sufficient metabisulphite), ,,, how well did you control the pH in the must? (below 3.5 is safer)
* washing with cold water removes 99.999% of the micro risk, (and even dead flies) ,, washing with hot water with soap removes 99.99999% of the micro risk ,,,,,, and adding another 10x of kill is considered sterile for canning food. ,,, Yup your bottles are spotless, ,,, Are your hoses clean? ,,, you can pretty much see that there aren’t dead flies just looking at a bottle that was washed with cold water.
* Star San is legal for food use, metabisulphite is legal for food use. Your health risk question could be what is the LD50 (lethal dosage per Kg body weight for fifty percent of the test population) ,,, free SO2 is toxic but reacts quickly and contributes a match like taste above 100 to 125 ppm.

Your Great Grandpa in 1900 didn’t have significant health risk from drinking a beverage with 5% or higher ABV and hot water washing, 1900 wine didn’t use star San or meta, ,,, Grandpa did however have the YUCK factor from sloppy control of chemical reactions during the beverages shelf life.

 

[Brant]

I get a lot of bottles from friends and neighbors. My BIGGEST fear in winemaking has been nasties left behind in used bottles.

If using new bottles, I rinse in a solution of 3 tbs kmeta (or NaMeta) to 1 gal water. Drain excess and use. No rinsing or waiting prior to bottling.

If using used and donated bottles, I soak with a little oxyclean and warm/hot water for 30 min (or longer) and scrub with a bottle brush. I later dunk them in a solution of sanitizer (starsan or other), drip dry them and place in storage until I'm ready to use them. Then I follow the same step (kmeta rinse) I used prior to bottle with new bottles.

Good luck.