Brand New to Wine Making

[Mark McD]

I have about 5 years experience in brewing beer & finally decided to leap into the wine vat. I'm starting with Winexpert Reserve Australian Shiraz - it's still on the way so it'll be a few days yet & I have a couple of beers waiting to ferment before I can do the wine.

Questions:
I have a fermenting fridge that is temp controlled - I presume wine yeasts are similar to beer yeast in that a constant temp means a better result?

Is there a 'best temp' for a shiraz? e.g. Coopers kits I recall saying to brew at ~25° or so but any brewer will tell you for normal yeasts it's better around 18°

I can brew as per instructions using Coopers fermenters, temp controlled, no airlock but then I've never used those for beers either. But I also have steel kegmenters, ~30L - is there any reason to NOT use the stainless kegmenters?

Can wine be fermented under pressure? I kinda like the idea of sparkling shiraz & if you brew beer under pressure it comes out already cabonated. Is this how sparkling shiraz is made?

I presume, like beer, the settling period in bottles needs to be constant temp? Beer can halt carbonating if the temp drops. I have a cupboard & a temp controller I can use to ensure the bottles remain at or close to ferment temp for the yeast - is that needed, given the racking etc to ensure a clear wine? Or do I just stick them in the cupboard for a year to age?

Any & all advice welcome...

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

Very little of what you know about fermenting beer applies to wine.

Wine yeast needs O2 for reproduction, so fermentation typically is best in an open container, stirred 1-4 times daily. I cover my primaries (typically 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brutes) with beach towels.

My fermentation temperature in the fall varies from 62 F to 68 F. Large batches of wine produce a fair amount of heat, so must temperature is likely to be higher than ambient temperature.

My cellar has dropped as low as 52 F this winter, which helps with cold stabilization (excess tartaric drops as crystals) but a constant temperature is not required.

Wine making is much more a patience game then beer making. It requires more time.

A view of winemaking is my running dialog of the 2024 wines: https://wine.bkfazekas.com/2024-wines-in-detail/

 

[Mark McD]

Welcome to WMT!

Very little of what you know about fermenting beer applies to wine.

Wine yeast needs O2 for reproduction, so fermentation typically is best in an open container, stirred 1-4 times daily. I cover my primaries (typically 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brutes) with beach towels.

My fermentation temperature in the fall varies from 62 F to 68 F. Large batches of wine produce a fair amount of heat, so must temperature is likely to be higher than ambient temperature.

My cellar has dropped as low as 52 F this winter, which helps with cold stabilization (excess tartaric drops as crystals) but a constant temperature is not required.

Wine making is much more a patience game then beer making. It requires more time.

A view of winemaking is my running dialog of the 2024 wines: https://wine.bkfazekas.com/2024-wines-in-detail/

Thanks very much! I suspected it would be different which is why I put the stuff about beer in there - to show where I'm coming from. I'll check out you link.

One Q though - beer needs O2 also, but only right at the start. After pitching the yeast, O2 ist verboten. The must needs it all the way through the process?

Also I have more research to do over the W/E before my pkg arrives.

Cheers!

 

[winemaker81]

A fair number of members, including me, are beer makers as well. In my youth I made a lot of beer, but am very sporadic in recent years. There are 2 important things about wine making:

1. It's a much slower process and patience is key.

2. Ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions. And at least 10 will be valid.

The funniest part of #2 is that it's accurate.

A difficulty for new winemakers is that you can get 2 diametrically different opinions ... that are both valid. Consider "why" someone does what they do, and use that to make your own decisions.

 

[Mark McD]

A fair number of members, including me, are beer makers as well. In my youth I made a lot of beer, but am very sporadic in recent years. There are 2 important things about wine making:

1. It's a much slower process and patience is key.

2. Ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions. And at least 10 will be valid.

The funniest part of #2 is that it's accurate.

A difficulty for new winemakers is that you can get 2 diametrically different opinions ... that are both valid. Consider "why" someone does what they do, and use that to make your own decisions.

OK, I'll bite... Why do you stir up to 4 times a day?
Is there a symptom that informs when you stir? Do you stir vigorously, as in make bubbles form to stir in the air or more just move the liquid around a bit?

Also is stirring one of the things that I'd get different opinions about? Does NOT stirring regularly 'fail' the wine?

 

[winemaker81]

The primary value of stirring/punch down is getting O2 into the wine. A secondary value is to keeping the cap from drying out, to avoid mold. This also helps with extraction from the fruit. When? When I have time.

All of my 2024 wines were fermented on the skins, so I did punch down, not stirring of juice. For juice or kits, gentle stirring to ensure nothing is settling on the surface is sufficient.

@VinesnBines does a submerged cap for some of her wines, due to her situation, which is also effective.

Since you're doing a kit, go to my Wines in Detail page and read the Barbera and Chardonnay pages. These detailed walk throughs will give you a view of the process.

My goal is to help you understand the overall process. When you get your kit, things will make a lot more sense

 

[winemaker81]

One Q though - beer needs O2 also, but only right at the start. After pitching the yeast, O2 ist verboten. The must needs it all the way through the process?

Wine yeast needs O2 3/4 of the way through the ferment. The last 1/4 is open to discussion.

 

[Rice_Guy]

welcome to WMT
You are starting with a kit so its good to follow the directions at least once. As Bryan noted yeast need oxygen for reproduction therefore air at the start is good. Depending in what it is I may rack into a carboy at 1.050. I try it with all whites. Cell production should be done at 1.050. Grape on skins are subject to infection/ require mixing, so anaerobic depends on what wine.
I have looked at ads for a pressurized fermentor which is a PET& nylon film. I have been tempted to order a two gallon, mainly because I want a two gallon size container. I may pressure ferment at some point. Technically the yeast will do it once the cell population is up.

Many beer yeast are adapted for low temperatures. Most wine yeast are adapted for above 50F / 10C. Using grapes the extraction is one issue. Most reds are fermented above 70F, but you could run lower especially since you have juice in a kit. For laughs I have run as low as 45F, it works even though it took forever.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

 

[Mark McD]

welcome to WMT
You are starting with a kit so its good to follow the directions at least once. As Bryan noted yeast need oxygen for reproduction therefore air at the start is good. Depending in what it is I may rack into a carboy at 1.050. I try it with all whites. Cell production should be done at 1.050. Grape on skins are subject to infection/ require mixing, so anaerobic depends on what wine.
I have looked at ads for a pressurized fermentor which is a PET& nylon film. I have been tempted to order a two gallon, mainly because I want a two gallon size container. I may pressure ferment at some point. Technically the yeast will do it once the cell population is up.

Many beer yeast are adapted for low temperatures. Most wine yeast are adapted for above 50F / 10C. Using grapes the extraction is one issue. Most reds are fermented above 70F, but you could run lower especially since you have juice in a kit. For laughs I have run as low as 45F, it works even though it took forever.

I do plan to follow WE instructions, but the experience of strange advice on the Coopers beer kit cans about temps has me cautious, so I figured I'd look for newbie 'gotchas' that might avoid vinegar because of some rookie mistake.