WineXpert Bravado Super Tuscan

[RiverRat]

I have this kit sitting on the oak cubes as a final stage before bottling rather than when the fermentation is shut down, so I basically have the finished wine on the oak and can leave it as long as I like.

One concern with this kit is the low starting gravity. I measured 1.074. It finished at 0.993 for ~ 11% ABV. It's fine, I just expected a starting gravity in the mid-upper 80's.

What OSG did others get?

Mine started at 1.075 on 01/16/17 and finished at 0.998. I, too, was a little surprised at the starting gravity. It is currently sitting in the carboy for the last 4 week journey.

 

[nwwoods]

I guess procedurally, OSG should be measured after the skin pack has been sitting in the must for a half-day or so. Presumably one keeps it covered to prevent wild yeasts from getting in, then measure and pitch. Or I guess you could pitch and that's not going to impact the measurement.

Per sour grapes, I suppose the real starting grav was more like 1.090-ish, yielding an ABV just north of 13% as jgmann67 said. Great!

 

[Ajmassa]

I expected higher as well. Started at 1.080 SG. (Didn't measure after the skins sat. Pitched yeast right away)
And got down to about .995.

 

[dcbrown73]

Yep, the skins pack is loaded with sugary fruity syrup that gives the gravity a little kick in the pants!

 

[Inverted]

I sure hope this wine continues to develop. Started this kit 11/30 and it is very fruity. Even with the oak in the kit I think this might need more oak.

 

[jburtner]

On this one I added a pound of dried tart cherries, and a second all-grape skin pack. Also started it around November. Just racked it off about 1.5" sediment last weekend and had a nice tasting. This is very nice and fruit forward. I want to say the PH was 3.42. So far it has had two spirals. Heavy american. Also was thinking of adding another but it's so good - may just leave as is and check agIn down the road.

Cheers!
-johann

 

[Ajmassa]

My Ph is the same as yours at 3.42 Started Jan 10. If Heavy American spirals are working for you I may just ride your coat tails and do the same.

 

[jgmann67]

Had a taster of this last night. The oak dominates the wine. Hoping that fades a little and allows more fruit to com through. Needs time. Maybe a year or so, I think.

 

[Ajmassa]

Had a taster of this last night. The oak dominates the wine. Hoping that fades a little and allows more fruit to com through. Needs time. Maybe a year or so, I think.

What kind, and how much oak did you add to this one?
I'm due for a rack, and will be pulling out the 2nd spiral dose added late may. Heavy American. Tasted a month ago and thought the oak had complimented well. Gave it that little extra something it lacked. Although that was 5 weeks ago.

 

[jgmann67]

I believe it was 60gr of medium + Hungarian oak cubes.

 

[Ajmassa]

Interesting. 60 gr is only about 2 ounces, and on the lighter side of recommended dosage.
Ill be tasting and racking tomorrow. At the 9 month mark. Removing the 2nd spiral addition. Hoping I don't have the same issue.

 

[Johnd]

I was topping barrels yesterday, including the Bravado. This kit was fermented with the press cake from a batch of grapes, PS or Merlot if I recall. It's been in a neutral barrel for 6 weeks with a M+ French Wine Stix, and really tastes solid. Few more months and it'll be ready to go to bottles......

 

[jgmann67]

Interesting. 60 gr is only about 2 ounces, and on the lighter side of recommended dosage.
Ill be tasting and racking tomorrow. At the 9 month mark. Removing the 2nd spiral addition. Hoping I don't have the same issue.

The oak will fade, I'm sure. I'm not concerned... just an observation.

 

[thruhike00]

I was topping barrels yesterday, including the Bravado. This kit was fermented with the press cake from a batch of grapes, PS or Merlot if I recall. It's been in a neutral barrel for 6 weeks with a M+ French Wine Stix, and really tastes solid. Few more months and it'll be ready to go to bottles......

John I am surprised as I bottled mine today at a year old and was disappointed. I expected a big super tuscan, and was sad to find it weaker than the eclipse lodi cab. Mine spent 4 mos in the small barrel and maybe that was too much time. The taste I pulled I left on the counter after the first sip, and went on with the bottling day. It did open up somewhat when I made it back to the glass, but still overall disappointing so far. Has anyone else felt it didn't match the label?

 

[Ajmassa]

John I am surprised as I bottled mine today at a year old and was disappointed. I expected a big super tuscan, and was sad to find it weaker than the eclipse lodi cab. Mine spent 4 mos in the small barrel and maybe that was too much time. The taste I pulled I left on the counter after the first sip, and went on with the bottling day. It did open up somewhat when I made it back to the glass, but still overall disappointing so far. Has anyone else felt it didn't match the label?

I've got this one at almost 11 months now. I went with American heavy toast spirals. Should have done 1 round in hindsight, but fading well now.
There's different blends of tuscans, but my Bravado, to me, is on par with what I thought. Sangiovese is not as big as Cab and this is majority Sangio. So a straight cab on its own would then be "bigger" than tuscanos. It's probably better to compare to a Chianti or Chianti Classico. Tho I haven't seen any Chianti kits.
But I dig the blend- enough to make it my grape batch this year. 50-25-25 sangio cab merlot. If I can get mine as balanced as the Bravado I'll be extremely happy. Will be interesting to see how they will compare to each other.

 

[jgmann67]

I've got this one at almost 11 months now. I went with American heavy toast spirals. Should have done 1 round in hindsight, but fading well now.
There's different blends of tuscans, but my Bravado, to me, is on par with what I thought. Sangiovese is not as big as Cab and this is majority Sangio. So a straight cab on its own would then be "bigger" than tuscanos. It's probably better to compare to a Chianti or Chianti Classico. Tho I haven't seen any Chianti kits.
But I dig the blend- enough to make it my grape batch this year. 50-25-25 sangio cab merlot. If I can get mine as balanced as the Bravado I'll be extremely happy. Will be interesting to see how they will compare to each other.

Mine is a little over a year old. Like yours, I may have over oaked a bit with a medium plus toast blend of French and Hungarian cubes. But the body and color are what I was expecting. The taste will get there in time. Next taster is in six months.

 

[Johnd]

John I am surprised as I bottled mine today at a year old and was disappointed. I expected a big super tuscan, and was sad to find it weaker than the eclipse lodi cab. Mine spent 4 mos in the small barrel and maybe that was too much time. The taste I pulled I left on the counter after the first sip, and went on with the bottling day. It did open up somewhat when I made it back to the glass, but still overall disappointing so far. Has anyone else felt it didn't match the label?

As was mentioned earlier, I don't expect the Super Tuscan to be heavier than a straight cab, but I also fermented it on skins from a pure grape batch, so it's a bit heavier that going straight up.

Interestingly, last barrel tasting I did in the wine room, wifey picked this wine over all of the grape wines, all four of them. She picked it because it was smoother and more integrated, the others were barely a year old and still need some time, but it speaks well of the Bravado.

 

[Ajmassa]

As was mentioned earlier, I don't expect the Super Tuscan to be heavier than a straight cab, but I also fermented it on skins from a pure grape batch, so it's a bit heavier that going straight up.



Interestingly, last barrel tasting I did in the wine room, wifey picked this wine over all of the grape wines, all four of them. She picked it because it was smoother and more integrated, the others were barely a year old and still need some time, but it speaks well of the Bravado.

Well that bodes well for the Bravado. Nice to get a separate unbiased opinion.
I've been surprised to read how many people were disappointed with this one. But I think it's gotta come down to expectations. And the "Super Tuscan" label can be misleading since they are all so different. A 70-15-15 sangio cab merlot is very close to a Chianti. Wheras other tuscans with little to no sangio will much "bigger" and closer to a Bordeaux.
What I like about toscanos and chiantis is that they are the ultimate red sauce wine. And are light enough to drink with any Italian meal (or any meal for me). The medium body from the sangio adds an "Everyman" quality to them I think. And easy drinking medium bodied wine that still has a big red feel to it and able to be drank young. Tho I've never had one of those real expensive ST's
I really got to see 1st hand last month just how much lighter the sangio grapes were after crushed compared to the cab and merlot. I'll have 120 bottles of it, and it's a perfect wine to give out for everyone to enjoy.

 

[diggerdan17]

John I am surprised as I bottled mine today at a year old and was disappointed. I expected a big super tuscan, and was sad to find it weaker than the eclipse lodi cab. Mine spent 4 mos in the small barrel and maybe that was too much time. The taste I pulled I left on the counter after the first sip, and went on with the bottling day. It did open up somewhat when I made it back to the glass, but still overall disappointing so far. Has anyone else felt it didn't match the label?

Just bottled mine today and couldn't be more disappointed , you summed up my experience to a tee.

On a positive note, we also put the mosaic red LE into bottles today at one year and it is fantastic!

 

[jsbeckton]

Mine is at 15 months now and was made pretty much by the book except for delaying bottling until 4 months. I find it still fruity and a little light, hoping it develops into something more interesting over the next year.